PC flight simulators

Subject: PC flight simulators
From: Steve
Date: 11/19/03 2:22 PM Pacific Standard Time

1943!! ROFLMAO!!

If you were with us (The 344th Bomb Group) in 1943 I don't think you would
have found much to laugh about. We sure didn't. There was a lot going on, but
none of it was very funny.

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"Mike Marron" wrote in message
...
"Gord Beaman" ) wrote:
(ArtKramr) wrote:

I don;t know much. Just a few lessons learned over the Rhine Valley in
1944 and
1945. BTW, I didn't see you there so maybe you are the one who doesn't
know
much about the reality of flying for sure. That is why you are confused
about
MSFS and real flying.

You should be ashamed of yourself...

After he was caught responding to his own posts

Accused (by one person), never verified.

Pete

from his anonymous
"Autocollimator" account and "agreeing" with himself, he should also
be absolutely MORTIFIED beyond words. Hard to believe that he even
has the balls to show his chicken****, lying face on this NG after
that outrageous stunt!

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 02:13:42 GMT, (John) wrote:

You are missing something.
Yes if you take the feeling of the fly, a pc cant give you this =
feeling.
But there are other things, especialy in online simulation.
Your enemy is real humans. They are clever, they learn day by day,
they do immelmans,hi yo-yos,low yo-yos,scissors,barrels, you need
SA to the limits when you are in the meadle of 15 enemy fighters,
you need to know ballistics to shoot angles (WWII sim) you learn
wingman tactics,squadron tactics,bombing ,dogfighting, with no real =
planes,
BUT very near to the real ones.(flying characteristics).
One thing is real at the online sims. The feaver of the battle with your =
human
enemies. Real pilots use real tactics there with near to real planes.
Especialy in WWII sim's you dont fight with buttons. You fight with REAL
Energy Management tactics, all props are underpowered,Real T&B tactics,
and in general you need to Know Real Combat Manuvers and flying theory
to survive.And ofcourse you need to know your plane and your enemy plane.
And more than everything you need to know how to shoot this devil infrond
of you at 400y who never stay steady.
We miss the real feeling of the flight witch a pc cant give you. Yet.

Well John, in simple terms, you are completely incorrect.

Ever here of Aces High? That's a real-time WWII combat simulator/game where
you fly with and against other human pilots. You even have radio voice coms.

More than a few military pilots have tried Aces High and came away horrified
at the ACM skill and tactical knowledge of the individual players/pilots. In
simple terms, they got their asses kicked.

I challenge anyone reading this to download the software (it's free) and set up
an online account (first two weeks are free) and try you hand at it. That goes
for you former fighter jocks too. However, be prepared for the extremely steep
learning curve and some extraordinaily talented people.

Go to http://www.hitechcreations.com

Yeah, it's a game, but it's also an accurate simulation inmany respects....

Come on guys, I won't abuse you too much.

My regards,

Widewing (C.C. Jordan)
http://www.worldwar2aviation.com
http://www.cradleofaviation.org

On 19 Nov 2003 22:30:20 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: PC flight simulators
From: Steve
Date: 11/19/03 2:22 PM Pacific Standard Time

1943!! ROFLMAO!!

If you were with us (The 344th Bomb Group) in 1943 I don't think you would
have found much to laugh about. We sure didn't. There was a lot going on, but
none of it was very funny.

Could you tell more about that simulator, Art?
How were the visuals done? What computed the flight model?

Bye
Andreas

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 23:57:37 GMT, (Corey
C. Jordan) wrote:
Sorry John, I clicked on the wrong message to reply....
Stupid of me.

Anyway, John is CORRECT!!!!!

Come and try an online combat sim and find out how real it can be,
and indeed, how gamey it sometimes becomes.

But, if you want to learn basic ACM, understand the complex SA skills involved,
this is the place to go.... Sure it lacks the physical dynamics of motion and
G loading. But you can add to the realism by doing the following:

Drink two liters of water before you begin. You can use the empty bottle to
relieve yourself later.

Open all the windows, and turn off the heat.

Strip to you skivies and turn on any ceiling fans.

Finally, write a line of code that reformats your hard drive should you get
shot down or otherwise break you airplane.

Now you have all the prerequisites of a WWII fighter pilot experience,
you have to pee, you're freezing your ass off and you're terrified, all at the
same time. Now, go fly a sortie with a sky full of enemy aircraft all out to
kill you. Meanwhile, watch your six, and those you fly with. Know where all the
bad guys are, their altitude and energy state. Plan your route in and out,
avoiding flak concentrations and have two alternatives ready as nothing ever
goes as planned.

All of this and you haven't even engaged yet... Oh yeah, it's not easy....

Hell, rather than argue from a point of not knowing, try the damn thing and
then come back and tell us what you have discovered. Besides, it's FREE
for the first two weeks!

My regards,



Well John, in simple terms, you are completely incorrect.

My regards,

Widewing (C.C. Jordan)
http://www.worldwar2aviation.com
http://www.cradleofaviation.org

Widewing (C.C. Jordan)
http://www.worldwar2aviation.com
http://www.cradleofaviation.org

On 19 Nov 2003 13:57:30 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

Only REAL MEN flew the B-26. And only the B-26 could scare the **** out of the
elephant.(grin)


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer


Art, Aces High has the B-26, and a bombsight that requires calibration.
It has the A-20G too, solid nose, no bombsight, but it's a strafing monster,
and as agile as some of the fighters to boot, especially after you burn off some
fuel and drop your ordnance.

My regards,

Widewing (C.C. Jordan)
http://www.worldwar2aviation.com
http://www.cradleofaviation.org

Ignoring the debate on wether its a game or simulator, but I will call
them simulators below (if you feel angry about this, count to 10 or
something).

I've flown these

A-10 Cuba!
X-Plane
Flanker 1.0-2.0
LO-MAC demo
Flight Unlimited
MS Flight Sim.

Ranked to the respect of how realistic/good the "feel of flight" is,
IMO, not on graphics or other bells and whistles. Granted, I've not
flown any of the aircraft in these simulators for real. But I took a
couple of lessons in a Cessna (oh, maybe I did fly one of these in
MSFS), been paragliding and is a vivid RC aircraft pilot!.

So, there. Thats what the orginal poster asked for.

Hell, rather than argue from a point of not knowing, try the damn thing and
then come back and tell us what you have discovered. Besides, it's FREE
for the first two weeks!

I will concur, it is a lot of fun..
Ron
Pilot/Wildland Firefighter

Glenfiddich wrote:

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:15:07 GMT, "Gord Beaman" wrote:

"James Hart" wrote:

I don't know what sim it is but this setup looks impressive.
http://jameshart.mine.nu/ngs/flysim.jpg

I'd sure as hell hate to prang *that* one!...it'd probably kill
you!

Even if all goes well, as well as the yoke and rudder pedals
you get to juggle FIVE mice, a trackball and two keyboards!

Somehow, I doubt the realism of that sim.

Sure, it's likely 'too real', IOW it's probably 'harder' to fly
than the real deal.
--

-Gord.

Subject: PC flight simulators
From: Andreas Maurer
Date: 11/19/03 4:34 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

On 19 Nov 2003 22:30:20 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: PC flight simulators
From: Steve
Date: 11/19/03 2:22 PM Pacific Standard Time

1943!! ROFLMAO!!

If you were with us (The 344th Bomb Group) in 1943 I don't think you would
have found much to laugh about. We sure didn't. There was a lot going on,
but
none of it was very funny.

Could you tell more about that simulator, Art?
How were the visuals done? What computed the flight model?

Bye
Andreas
..

Sure Andreas. Since you ask like a gentleman, I'll be glad to discuss it with
you. As I stated before, it was a real B-26 truncated behind the radio/Nav
compartment and mounted on a swive-l tilt base in a hanger. When we climbed
into it the pilots went into the cockpit, and went through turning on all their
switches and starting and running up the engines as if for a real takeoff.
Everything lit up and came to life. I climbed into the nose, and switched on
everything activating the bombsight, watched the gyro stand up and come to
speed, watched the intervelometer light up and the bomb rack station indicator
show loaded bomb racks on each station. Now to the interesting stuff. My view
was a color photograph chart that rolled under me at groundspeed. But it was
a scrambled image, That is the target area might be a port that showed
Manhattan in the center, the China coast to the West and San Francisco to the
East. This was to prevent anyone rom being familiar with any area so you
couldn't say, "hey I lived there and know it well" You had to fly and navigate
since no one had a recognition advantage. We had been briefed before the
simulator drill as to the exact rarget are we were to hit and the route we were
to fly. Where we were to expect flak and fighters but we were never given any
indcation of the damage that we would sustain. On course we had extensive flak
that shook the simulator violently. We had an engine out that rolled us
violently into the dead engine but Paul and Bob caughtiit in time and we
connued on course on sungle engine. We were now losing about 300 feet /minute
and couldn't do a damned thing about it. We were jumped by fighterand returned
fire. Our cockpit and my nose filled with smoke and had a strong cordite
smell;; mixed with the odor of urine and vomit which was always present. I
opened the vent and a strong relative wind blew the nose clear of smoke. We
stopped losing altitiude and the target came into sight.I lined up the Norden
head with the target uncaged the gyro and called "on course" to Paul locking
in the Norden head to the base, Suddenly we got heavy Flak that rocked the
plane violently. "please don't tumble my gyro" I prayed. ****, The gyro
tumbled.I grabbed the gimble ring erector knobs, got the gyro up and caged it.
But it was too late. We would now have to do a go around through that ****ing
flak again. I had totally forgotten I was in a simulator. I was sweating ,
tense and upset about the go around as though it was real It was real to me at
that point. I got on the intercom and asked Paul to hold us steady through the
run.I forgot that the simulator was pre-programed and there were certain things
that were going to happen that was beyond our control. On the second run we hit
the target with good results. closed the bombay doors and we turned for home.
The run was over, We got out of the plane sweating and shaken. Note that I
call it a plane, not a simulator because to us it was a plane,not a simiulator.
And we were almost surprised to find that when we got out of the plane we were
in a hanger. Reality rushed back. That night we went to the officers club and
over a few Scotches we drank and kept saying. "holy ****. holy ****"

Adreas that is as I remember it. If you have any questions I will be glad to
answer them.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer