Airplane Ownership

That is perceived value - in the end, there is no real added value - I get
the same from my handheld.


"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
link.net...
Cessna sold out an entire years 182 and 206 production in one hour
following
the announcement that they would have the G1000. That tells me that
people
desire glass cockpits. You should also know that the glass cockpits are
cheaper than the analog gauges that they replace. I would hate to be the
guy who bought the last non-glass 182.

Mike
MU-2





"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...
"Mike Rapoport" wrote:
I believe that the reason that airplanes have appreciated is that
the older ones have been, for all practical purposes, equal to the
new ones. With the advent of the glass cockpit, his is no
longer true.

I don't agree that the glass cockpits add a tremendous amount of real
value over old instruments combined with an MFD. Consider the
experience of Cirrus Designs, which believed, naively, it turned out,
that glass cockpits would make their airplanes notably safer than older
designs. The only thing I find really exciting about the new designs is
the electronic AHRS which finally supplants the old pneumatic gyros.

Sheer pizzazz is selling new glass cockpit airplanes now, but when they
get old enough for the used market, it's uncertain that they will
command a large premium. Will prices of used 2003 Skylanes be depressed
$50K vs. 2004 ones? It's hard for me to picture myself paying that kind
of premium for just the pretty boxes.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

Soon_To_Fly wrote:

Where did you get your Musketeer? Is there enough of these around still for
second hand purchases?

A recent TAP has two listed, one for a bit over 31k.

George Patterson
Battle, n; A method of untying with the teeth a political knot that would
not yield to the tongue.

I bought mine halfway through training. I got tired or the scheduling
issues and thought it would be nice to have my own when I wanted to go on a
weekend trip and not have to pay the minimum times.

I bought a 4 place grumman. Ownership has its benefits and downsides.
Consider a partnership with one/2/3 other people. I would have, but I knew
I was going to move within a year so that didn't work well with a potential
partnership.

I am happy I bought it, but it has cost a lot of money...

Still, it is nice to be able to go to the airport whenever I feel like it
and go flying without having to schedule with anyone.

"Shirley" wrote in message
...
Anyone here buy their own airplane to do their training in before being
licensed? I am a glider pilot transitioning to power. Any
suggestions/recommendations, advice, cautions? Thanks in advance.

http://www.aso.com/i.aso/ForSaleListing.jsp

Soon_To_Fly wrote:
Where did you get your Musketeer? Is there enough of these around still for
second hand purchases?

Still, it is nice to be able to go to the airport whenever I feel like it
and go flying without having to schedule with anyone

Perhaps I should tell the rest of the J-3 story. The gent who bought
the plane as a student, and who had such tourble passing his medical,
eventually decided to upgrade it with a bigger engine, new covering,
etc etc, which cost as much as the original purchase. So he asked our
mutual (former) flight instructor if he wanted to split the ownership,
and this happened.

When I did my biennial flight check in January, I asked how this was
working out. The instructor allowed that it was working just fine for
him, but that the partner never seems to fly the aircraft. He's
self-employed, too, so it's not a scheduling problem--he could go if
he wanted to.

So there's another caution: be awfully sure that you will still want
to fly on a regular basis after the initial euphoria of learning to
fly. Otherwise you might end up maintaining an aircraft for somebody
else to enjoy.


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (requires authentication)

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Well, until I fly a fully integrated electronic cockpit, I'll reserve my
judgement of value. But I'm hoping and thinking that a fully integrated set
of avionics and instrumentation has real value beyond that of the piece
parts.

We can continue to fly 50s vintage equipment with a handheld GPS unit and
complain about how slowly small plane aviation technology advances. I want
to jump on the horse. The Skylane is halfway there. The Cirrus and the
'other one' seem to be the first 21st century light a/c. I think I'm going
to like it a lot and I'd hate to buy the last new steam guage Skylane too.

"Richard Hertz" wrote in message
news
That is perceived value - in the end, there is no real added value - I get
the same from my handheld.


"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
link.net...
Cessna sold out an entire years 182 and 206 production in one hour
following
the announcement that they would have the G1000. That tells me that
people
desire glass cockpits. You should also know that the glass cockpits are
cheaper than the analog gauges that they replace. I would hate to be
the
guy who bought the last non-glass 182.

Mike
MU-2





"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...
"Mike Rapoport" wrote:
I believe that the reason that airplanes have appreciated is that
the older ones have been, for all practical purposes, equal to the
new ones. With the advent of the glass cockpit, his is no
longer true.

I don't agree that the glass cockpits add a tremendous amount of real
value over old instruments combined with an MFD. Consider the
experience of Cirrus Designs, which believed, naively, it turned out,
that glass cockpits would make their airplanes notably safer than
older
designs. The only thing I find really exciting about the new designs
is
the electronic AHRS which finally supplants the old pneumatic gyros.

Sheer pizzazz is selling new glass cockpit airplanes now, but when
they
get old enough for the used market, it's uncertain that they will
command a large premium. Will prices of used 2003 Skylanes be
depressed
$50K vs. 2004 ones? It's hard for me to picture myself paying that
kind
of premium for just the pretty boxes.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

Thanks to all for your comments. In response, not looking to choose between
gliders and airplanes ... without a doubt, each have their own challenges and
satisfactions. Right now, I just want to finish up the airplane rating and am
weighing the pros and cons of ownership vs. renting, keeping in mind the
stumbling blocks I have run across so far.

I appreciate the tips and insight, thanks for sharing your experiences.
Shirley

"Shirley" wrote in message
...
Thanks to all for your comments. In response, not looking to choose
between
gliders and airplanes ... without a doubt, each have their own challenges
and
satisfactions.

Believe me, I wasn't suggesting you were or should. It was just my path.
I'm still amazed at being willing and able to walk away from something that
I obsessed about for so many years. I was in as deep as I could get, then
just switched.

Have fun!

My VOR receivers are functional and so is my Garmin 295. I could have spent
a bunch of money for an MFD and a GPS (ifr certified) and an AP, but that
was waaay too much for the "extra" value that I am getting.

It is nice to see pictures and things in the airplane, but not at that
price. (I also have seen too many people become way too dependent on the
pretty moving map that they have no idea what to do if it is not there. )


"Maule Driver" wrote in message
. com...
Well, until I fly a fully integrated electronic cockpit, I'll reserve my
judgement of value. But I'm hoping and thinking that a fully integrated
set
of avionics and instrumentation has real value beyond that of the piece
parts.

We can continue to fly 50s vintage equipment with a handheld GPS unit and
complain about how slowly small plane aviation technology advances. I
want
to jump on the horse. The Skylane is halfway there. The Cirrus and the
'other one' seem to be the first 21st century light a/c. I think I'm
going
to like it a lot and I'd hate to buy the last new steam guage Skylane too.

"Richard Hertz" wrote in message
news
That is perceived value - in the end, there is no real added value - I
get
the same from my handheld.


"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
link.net...
Cessna sold out an entire years 182 and 206 production in one hour
following
the announcement that they would have the G1000. That tells me that
people
desire glass cockpits. You should also know that the glass cockpits
are
cheaper than the analog gauges that they replace. I would hate to be
the
guy who bought the last non-glass 182.

Mike
MU-2





"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...
"Mike Rapoport" wrote:
I believe that the reason that airplanes have appreciated is that
the older ones have been, for all practical purposes, equal to the
new ones. With the advent of the glass cockpit, his is no
longer true.

I don't agree that the glass cockpits add a tremendous amount of
real
value over old instruments combined with an MFD. Consider the
experience of Cirrus Designs, which believed, naively, it turned
out,
that glass cockpits would make their airplanes notably safer than
older
designs. The only thing I find really exciting about the new designs
is
the electronic AHRS which finally supplants the old pneumatic gyros.

Sheer pizzazz is selling new glass cockpit airplanes now, but when
they
get old enough for the used market, it's uncertain that they will
command a large premium. Will prices of used 2003 Skylanes be
depressed
$50K vs. 2004 ones? It's hard for me to picture myself paying that
kind
of premium for just the pretty boxes.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

When the picture includes terrain data to help you get home safely on IFR
days in the mountains, it is pretty indeed.

Your point is well taken, though. Moving map GPS and MFDs can be addictive
and cause one to lose some pilotage and simple radio navigation skills.

--snip--

It is nice to see pictures and things in the airplane, but not at that
price. (I also have seen too many people become way too dependent on the
pretty moving map that they have no idea what to do if it is not there. )