For Fliers Only

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 20:16:47 -0500, vincent p. norris
wrote:

I actually heard a guy on a GCA once, in near zero zero conditions...I
forget just exactly how bad it was...but it was approach marginal at any
rate. This guy was on a GCA final in weather up to his armpits. I know
because I was right behind him holding.

Dudley, It's a good story, but I'm afraid I find it
a bit hard to believe.

1. In my experience, admittedly years ago, we were instructed not to
roger for further transmissions and to break off the approach if we
failed to hear the controller for about three seconds. Actually, it
sounded like the controller never took his (her) finger off the mike
button, which would block any calls from the pilot.

2. If you were holding, you would be on a different frequency. The
final controller has a channel all his (her) own, for obvious reasons.


As a former military GCA controller, I can say that the lost comm
instructions we transmitted had a time interval based upon the type of
radar approach being made, i.e. if on a vector to the final approach,
the time interval prior to lost comm being assumed was not to exceed
one minute, on a surveillance (ASR) approach the time interval was 15
seconds, and on a precision (PAR) approach the interval was 5 seconds.

Lost comm procedures may be different for the pattern/approach to
final and the final approach itself.

The "do not acknowledge further transmissions" was not done until
after aircraft contact with the final controller.

GCA controllers don't routinely keep the mike keyed during the entire
final approach - each sequence of instructions is a separate
transmission, unless there are a number of instructions being relayed
very closely together.

Been there, done that, thousands of times.

John Hairell )

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 02:28:16 GMT, "Gord Beaman" )
wrote:
[stuff snipped]

Precisely correct Vince, my experiences were quite a few years
ago too but my long term memory is crystal clear, all our GCA's
were done on 134.1, and that's all that was done on there, GCA's.


Typically each GCA facility has a different frequency, actually
multiple different frequencies, at least in the US and at US military
facilities overseas. I don't know what other countries do and did.

John Hairell )

"Alan Minyard" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 03:33:44 GMT, "Dudley Henriques"
wrote:


"Jack" wrote in message
...
Dudley done wrote:

...most of the discourse we heard did occur in the early part of his
approach...and that was I believe, before the 5 second no trans go
missed call by the controller.
But she DID sound sexy as hell!!!!

I've met a couple of female controllers who sounded like that, too.
However,
in real life they were both many kilos over weight, and years past
their
anticipated age.


--
Jack

It's funny about things like that. It could be that the heavier they get,
the lower their voice gets until at last they reach that perfect scenario
of
maximum weight vs maximum sexy voice!! :-))
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

There is an old story, which I have no way of knowing
its veracity, about the B-58 program. Supposedly, the
voice for the warning system ("fire in number four engine", etc)
was that of a lady who won a contest for the "sexiest" voice.
The theory being that on a long, boring flight (in a B-58???) the
female voice would startle the crew into action. She was a
60ish grandmother.

Like I said, I have no idea if this was the case or not :-))

Al Minyard

There's usually some truth in all these stories, and if you dig deep enough
you can usually find some basis for fact.
It's sort of a joke around the fighter community anyway that "bitch'in
betty" was chosen as a female warning voice because anything you heard in
flight otherwise was usually a male voice and you were accustomed to that
and might not react as required. (although I have to admit that a fair share
of the controllers I've worked through the years were female :-)
Since most of us were and are married, the theory was that if you were just
sailing along minding your own damn business fat dumb and happy as guys are
prone to do.....and suddenly your male world was shattered by the sound of a
female voice hollering at you like crazy....your natural reaction would be
just as it would be anywhere else you heard a female voice entering your
"male world" uninvited........"Jesus H. Christ!! What the f**k am I doing
wrong NOW!!!!" :-)
These days, to be politically correct, the least they could do would be to
supply a male voice for the gal pilots in the community!!! :-)))

Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

Back in the late 70's Miami Center had a female controller who must
have had chronic PMS. She sure hated any request to deviate from a
flight plan or profile and her tone of voice changed instantly to let
you know it, too. FWIW our GCA final controllers 'back then' would
release the mike button periodically in case you had anything to say.
(like 'oh, s--t'?)
a) "Your request for immediate refueling has been granted - there is a
truck on the runway."
b) "You are going below the glideslope - you are going dangerously
below the glideslope. Pull up! Oops - never mind - we'll be picking
you up - later."
Walt BJ

"WaltBJ" wrote in message
om...
Back in the late 70's Miami Center had a female controller who must
have had chronic PMS. She sure hated any request to deviate from a
flight plan or profile and her tone of voice changed instantly to let
you know it, too. FWIW our GCA final controllers 'back then' would
release the mike button periodically in case you had anything to say.
(like 'oh, s--t'?)
a) "Your request for immediate refueling has been granted - there is a
truck on the runway."
b) "You are going below the glideslope - you are going dangerously
below the glideslope. Pull up! Oops - never mind - we'll be picking
you up - later."
Walt BJ

Now THERE'S an argument for female fighter pilots!!

Can you just imagine trying to defend a well executed follow up guns run by
some female jock back there with PMS.......talk about AGGRESSION!!!!!!!?
:-))))
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

John Hairell wrote:

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 02:28:16 GMT, "Gord Beaman" )
wrote:
[stuff snipped]

Precisely correct Vince, my experiences were quite a few years
ago too but my long term memory is crystal clear, all our GCA's
were done on 134.1, and that's all that was done on there, GCA's.


Typically each GCA facility has a different frequency, actually
multiple different frequencies, at least in the US and at US military
facilities overseas. I don't know what other countries do and did.

John Hairell )

Yes, that's likely true for us as well but I don't ever remember
doing a GCA on other than 134.1 though. It's likely that we used
that as a standard unless it couldn't be used due to proximity
with other airports equipped for PAR/GCA. Seems to make sense to
me.
--

-Gord.

John Hairell wrote:

GCA controllers don't routinely keep the mike keyed during the entire
final approach - each sequence of instructions is a separate
transmission, unless there are a number of instructions being relayed
very closely together.

Been there, done that, thousands of times.

John Hairell )

And I can assure you that your voice was the most attentively
followed factor on lots of those 'close encounters of the nervous
kind' too...not just the words either but the tone of voice too.

You no doubt were trained to deliver those words in a monotone
but when several pairs of ears are hanging onto every clue
available then pretty damned slight variations are well noted.

Been there and done that at least hundreds of times...too many of
which were where God supplied the 'blind flying hood'.

Thanks for all the successful outcomes of your (and your
cohorts') efforts sir.
--

-Gord.

(WaltBJ) wrote:

Back in the late 70's Miami Center had a female controller who must
have had chronic PMS. She sure hated any request to deviate from a
flight plan or profile and her tone of voice changed instantly to let
you know it, too. FWIW our GCA final controllers 'back then' would
release the mike button periodically in case you had anything to say.
(like 'oh, s--t'?)
a) "Your request for immediate refueling has been granted - there is a
truck on the runway."
b) "You are going below the glideslope - you are going dangerously
below the glideslope. Pull up! Oops - never mind - we'll be picking
you up - later."
Walt BJ

I love the one where an old BOAC Captain politely asks ground
control in Berlin for taxi instructions to the BOAC terminal and
was answered by a crusty old German with "Vhut!?, haf you neffer
been to Berlin before?!?".

His great retort was a calm measured
"Well...yes I was...in 1943...but I didn't stop".

Classic. I love it.



--

-Gord.