US Competition Pilot Poll and Election

On Wednesday, October 19, 2016 at 6:40:58 PM UTC-4, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
Figures, you MISSED my original intent, it was NOT a discussion of racing or contests, it was word usage.

Most of the "soaring planet" goes to "glider contests/competitions", while there may be racing,it is not a given.
We have a CD at these events.
Sometimes racing is involved.

You, Sean, have provided a platform for glider racing. I think it's worth changing the main rules guy title to Racing Director, so people understand the difference.
I would HATE to have you deal with contestants that wanted a competition but only had races.

A bunch of us go to the HHSC Snowbird competition, no speed involved, can't say I have any real complaints.

You want a race, go to a race.
You put together a race, have a Race Director, otherwise, you may mislead someone........sucks to be you.

While I have competed for a couple decades in US soaring competitions, I have not for a few years.

I only replied to this thread when the time limit on it was about done.

You want a race, you have one.
Others in the US can do your race, or do competitions.

As to US rules vs. FAI rules, that is another thread.

Charlie, I honestly have little idea what you are trying to say in your post above. But I do appreciate the response. Please allow me to try and respond in a very heartfelt way.

I think you are claiming that US sailplane racing is not racing? It's a competition and therefore not a race because the guy who sets the tasks and governs the event is the "contest director" and not a "race director?" Is this correct? Let us look at a few other "racing sports."
- The people who run the Tour de France are called officials. Is the Tour de France not a race?
- The people who run a Formula One race are called officials. Is Formula One not racing?
- The people who run the America's Cup competition are called the event authority or event directors. Is Americas Cup not racing?
- The person in charge of a rowing competition is also called the director. Is rowing not racing?

Regardless, citing the name of the event leaders title as containing the word "competition" (the event) and not "race" (the individual parts that make up the event, contest or competition) is fairly pointless.

But I do agree with you on one thing. The absolute fact that US soaring "competition" (especially US!) is NOT racing. We do not race gliders in the USA. Even though many like to try to refer to US contests as containing "races" or "racing." Or that a TAT task is a "race?" Or a MAT being a race. How silly. Amazing right? What is the matter with these clowns? Calling a US contest task a race! LOL. ;-)

You are spot on Charlie. US contests have never been racing, at least for as long as I have followed it. I have been saying this here for several years now. Oh, how the US rules/tasking "good old boy" crowd hates it when I do. But so what. They need to hear the truth from time to time. The truth is that US "contests" have morphed (and continue to morph) into something much closer to OLC (or perhaps tiddlywinks) than a racing sport. For many of us this is very sad. We want to race, at least some of the time.

I can't tell you how many times I have tried to explain our sport to friends or colleagues. Just this week I did a TV interview. It was great fun and as always, explaining the experience of soaring was wonderful. Explaining the competition format and task (not assigned, the other crap) was absolutely painful. In fact, the producer almost immediately edited the timed, pilot option tasks out of the interview. They were horrified by the concept I think. What does that say to us? The fact is that non-glider pilots (even many glider pilots in fact) usually cannot make sense of the US gliding competition. Of course, Sailplane Grand Prix is immediately understood and exciting to spectators and friends.

We conduct nearly zero glider racing in the USA. You absolutely nailed it. You have me, dead to rights. Even our event/contest official is called the "Contest Director" and not a "Race Director. How about "Time/Distance Accumulation basically anywhere you choose to go, Director?" That would be more accurate. Would that title be better for you? How about Tiddlywinks director? US tasking is, almost exclusively now, a "distance/time" accumulation game with a high degree of chance. It's boring as hell.

Again, you are absolutely right Charlie, US tasking, US contests, US glider "competition" is absolutely NOT racing. Most US pilots are actually quite terrified of true racing or assigned tasks. This is sad. They squirm in their chairs when assigned tasks are called and lobby for the "B (TAT) task" almost immediately. I have watched this often with mild amusement (but mostly sadness and frustration). I really do think that our US tasking (despite great intentions) is a major part of the reason that the sport of soaring has suffered so much decline in recent years here in the USA. Especially when compared to ALL OTHER SOARING NATIONS (outside of the USA) which compete under FAI tasking (50% assigned tasks).

Young people want to race! They love racing bicycles (road, mountain, etc).. The love racing sailboats. They love racing in track events. The love adventure racing. They love racing on ski's and snowboards. They love racing period. Can you name a successful, thriving, growing sport where the name of the game is..."go out and get as much mileage as you can in three hours?" Oh, by the way, you will probably never see another competitor during that time. Isn't that exciting? Remember, you are NOT racing. You are at a contest! See, that guy over there, he is named the CONTEST DIRECTOR. Never say the word race again! Oh, and you'll have to wait 3-4 hours to see your score. Oh, and the scoring will be on some obscure website that nobody will ever care about (especially your friends). The results will not be presented on any social media channels, ever. No excitement. No reports of the event, at all. A big snooze. Boring. S T U P I D! But good luck with this Charlie. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe US contests are amazing and I must re-double my efforts to convince myself that a HAT task is awesome. I promise to try.

FAI sailplane racing, on the other had, IS racing on any "competition" day with suitable weather. That is their way. And generally, their definition of suitable is realistic. They use starting lines and finish lines. They love assigned tasks. Assigned task RACING is what they (competition directors and the competitors (RACERS!)) are hoping for when they get up in the AM and check the weather. They are disappointed when a TAT must be called. The want objective racing, not "chance tasks" aka TAT. A MAT would be met with pitchforks, ridicule, and intense laughter. FAI events run roughly 50% (or greater) assigned tasks in fact. And their AT is not the "US perversion" of the assigned task with its variable distance element (no longer a race around a set track).

If wanting to race gliders in the USA is wrong, I don't want to be right. The tasking we compete under here the USA today is an utter disgrace to all sports. 3% assigned tasks (don't forget this is the extra distance optional US rules version). 97% of US tasks encourage significant pilot option, "chance tasks."

On the SSA website, you have to click on "Sailplane Racing" to get to contests. That's because the SSA was CREATED for "Racing."

I've been to too many gliderports in the USA and listened to the old timers speak to younger generations about how "back in my day, racing was racing." This conversation seems to happen enough, to be a major contributor to the demise of Soaring in the USA.

That's not motivational to hear George Moffat tell someone who is considering buying a racing sailplane. That's a big turn off when pilots stop and think about spending $80,000 for a racing glider that you can't race.

Sailplane Races in America have turned into Geo Cashing Contests in the Sky.. That's as boring as Pokémon Go.

Perhaps we should have two groups in America. A racing league for the serious competitors who have been pussified by the detachment from the rest of the world racing league and one league where nobody is interested in speed.

Sailplane Racing Association verses Tiddlywinks Geo-Cashing Pokémon Go League.

It's time for a REVOLUTION in the Soaring Society of America.

Otherwise, we will continue to shrink and shrink.

The SSA leaders will be judged on their ability to make changes. If not, they are not effective leaders! Thank you for your volunteering spirit, but if you are contributing in a harmful way to our sport, leading it into poor attendance worse every year, you need to stop as you are not helping the sport. We need leaders who are helpers not hinderers.

SSA Leadership, all eyes are on you. What do you want to remembered by? Our politicians are remembered as ineffective and ringing up the national debt.. It's your choice, wake up face reality, get in with the rest of the world.

Next election it is time to nominate and replace the leaders with good intentions, with one who are capable and competent.

This is a reality of our sport collapsing. We've taken the excitement out and now the foundation is no longer solid. This can be undone.

It looks like there we have a chicken-and-egg problem here, with two opposing propositions:

(a) The sport of soaring in America is on the decline because the contest rules are geared towards older pilots who'd prefer roaming through the skies all day to racing. Since this type of contest flying is not attractive to the younger competitive pilots, they are leaving the sport in droves.

(b) The decline in the sport of soaring in America is caused by the lack of new young glider pilots entering the ranks. Consequently, the glider pilot population is rapidly aging and the older pilots, who are now in the overwhelming majority, are tailoring the contest rules according to their own preferences. Most of the the senior pilots aren't very competitive and they enter contests in order to socialize and get some flying in. Others, who are still competitive at heart, realize that they no longer possess the psycho-physical capabilities required to be competitive with the hotshots like Sean, who are in their prime. Both groups of geezers, although for slightly different reasons, prefer the loosey-goosey tasks (like MAT and TAT with 30 mile radius) that currently prevail in the US contests.

From what I can tell, Sean and Wilbur subscribe to the proposition (a) and claim that changing the rules and turning the US contests into true racing competitions would bring about a renaissance in the sport of soaring in America.

However, what if the proposition (b) is the one much closer to the truth? What if the current arcane US contest rules are not the root cause, but rather the effect of the aging glider population and the decline in the sport of soaring in America? Then changing them would not do much, if anything, to fix the root cause of the problem.

As an illustration, take a look at the number of contestants in this year's Senior Soaring Championship (55 entries, 6 guests, and 7 on the waiting list), and compare it to this year's US Junior National Camp and Contest (6 entries). I rest my case.

However, there is a definite bright side for the competitive US glider pilots in their prime: they should find it relatively easy to do well enough in the US contests (given the past-their-prime competition) in order to qualify for the US gliding team. Compare this to the German or French gliding teams, where even the recent world champions are not assured of being selected.

Branko Stojkovic
XYU

I think everyone knows the chicken is just an eggs way of making another egg.


On Thursday, October 20, 2016 at 8:32:40 AM UTC-7, Branko Stojkovic wrote:
It looks like there we have a chicken-and-egg problem here, with two opposing propositions:

On Thursday, October 20, 2016 at 1:20:14 PM UTC+2, wrote:
On the SSA website, you have to click on "Sailplane Racing" to get to contests. That's because the SSA was CREATED for "Racing."

I've been to too many gliderports in the USA and listened to the old timers speak to younger generations about how "back in my day, racing was racing." This conversation seems to happen enough, to be a major contributor to the demise of Soaring in the USA.

That's not motivational to hear George Moffat tell someone who is considering buying a racing sailplane. That's a big turn off when pilots stop and think about spending $80,000 for a racing glider that you can't race.

Sailplane Races in America have turned into Geo Cashing Contests in the Sky. That's as boring as Pokémon Go.

Perhaps we should have two groups in America. A racing league for the serious competitors who have been pussified by the detachment from the rest of the world racing league and one league where nobody is interested in speed.

Sailplane Racing Association verses Tiddlywinks Geo-Cashing Pokémon Go League.

I love it!
Mark

Perhaps (though I strongly disagree) but still you still avoid (along with many) the key question...

What measured value does maintaining US rules provide vs. the efficiency and stability of using FAI rules (like every other country on earth does, happily, successfully and safely)?

Sure, the SSA has created a hugely disproportionate, anemic, senior heavy age distribution for itself and simultaneously conditioned it's membership to react negatively to the any suggestion of racing, assigned task or adopting the same rules which are used happily, successfully, and safely by all other soaring nations. But that situation IN NOW WAY justifies continuing down the existing failed course with US rules and wasting all the time, energy and resources.

Yes, we need to start focusing far, far more aggressively (vs not at all) on re-developing youth in contest soaring. This is essential. But we need to re-connect with the international soaring community and stop isolating ourselves and softening our pilots skills. There is incredible value in that reconnection with FAI and the international community which our "elders" insist that we leave on the table.

We need to immediately refocus the wasted efforts of our failed (zero to negative net value) US rules on higher priority efforts.

The idea that we are old and grumpy (US soaring, SSA) and a rule change won't improve participation for the "old guys" is just awful. So is saying that youth will not respond. Look at Britain. look at Germany. Australia. Etc, etc. We need some 18-32 yr olds on our rules committee. We need to stop putting only the good old boys on the rules committee. The current crop actually works to keep youth or "non like minded" contest pilots off thier precious RC. This is corrupt, unhealthy and shameful, and they know it.

This is going to end up being a long post. But, I've thought about this stuff - a lot. The problem with these RAS debates is that a small number of people who have really strong opinions tend to create a lot of noise that gets in the way of real analysis.

Since very few people will read this whole post, I'm going to put the punch line first. Based on actual data collected from a reasonably large sample of potential racing pilots, it's pretty clear that the rules have nothing to do with keeping people out. Time is number one. Skill building is number two. Rules was way down on the list - in the bottom third.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bx...k5Yc2FQMTMxWnM

Now the full story.

A couple of years ago I actually put in the effort to gather some data. Now, a data-driven argument is nowhere near as fun as an ad hominem one, so for that I apologize in advance. The following describes a detailed survey I did back in 2011.

The objective of my study was to figure out why more people weren't flying contests. It started out with the assumption that people who owned gliders had gone far enough that they were hooked. In other words, they have taken the first big step toward (potentially) becoming a competition pilot. It's not a perfect assumption, but it's a good first approximation.

Next, I had to find out if there were a lot of potential racing gliders in our local area that were sitting around in trailers and hangars not doing much. Then, I had to figure out why the owners of those gliders weren't participating in races. The results were interesting and a little surprising in some ways and pretty predictable in others.

I know that the actuaries and statisticians among us will find all sorts of flaws, but I'm not aware of anyone in the US who has better data. So until someone comes up with a better analysis, here goes...

I started out by going to every glider operation in Region 2 asking the active pilots/usual suspects to help get me in touch with others who owned gliders. This covered primarily Wurtsboro, Middletown, Blairstown, Van Sant, Beltzville, PGC, Brandywine, and Morgantown. Figure that's eastern PA, NJ, and Southeastern NY - most of Region 2. I cross-checked the information against the FAA database of registered gliders in those states. I was able to "find" and get in touch with about 2/3 of the registered gliders based in this area along with their owners/pilots and got them to take an online survey. I definitely got the majority of glass single place ships covered (figuring those are the most likely to be used for XC and racing). So, while not complete, the survey should at least be statistically significant.

The survey and results are in the attached spreadsheet. I haven't tried to make it pretty, but I did grab screenshots from the survey in the PDF. Here's the big pictu

- 66 glider owners responded after a lot of work tracking people down. That's a pretty nice yield.
- 2/3 of those owners claim to "regularly" fly XC (I defined as more than 50KM from the home field). I thought that was a pleasant surprise; I would've figured half or less. We've been working for at least 15 years in Region 2 to drive participation in the OLC and local contests, so maybe that's having some impact.
- About half claim to participate in local/online contests (OLC and the Governor's Cup)
- Almost the same number claim to have participated in an SSA Sanctioned contest in the last 3 years. That was surprising... half the people who own a glider in our area say they flew a contest. I did a little cross checking and the ranking list, and those numbers seem to be plausible. I suspect that's better than in many other regions.
- As far as "why you don't participate in SSA Sanctioned contests", the results were fairly scattered. If you look at only the "Top 3 Reasons" (i..e. those that were ranked as the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd roadblock), it was in order:
* Time
* Something Else
* Rainouts

The "Something Else" was set up to let folks give their thoughts/concerns, so the answers are all over the map. The results are similar if you look at only the Top 2 reasons. The something else freeform responses are included in the spreadsheet.

Rules complexity or frustration with rules was... drumroll please... third from last (7th out of 9).

My takeaway here is that there's not some silver bullet that would suddenly increase participation. HOWEVER, it does suggest that rules/fairness/competition concerns that tend to occupy the minds of the hardcore racing pilot are (not surprisingly) not nearly as important to the fence sitters. IF we're serious about increasing participation (and if that's the charter of the Rules Committee or the SRA or some other interested group), the lessons seem to be:

- Test out more long-weekend races or other formats that minimize having to take long vacations.
- Create a structure that would allow newbies and folks with families to feel comfortable (e.g. the Mifflin beginner's contests, Caesar Creek XC and Racing Camp, etc.)
- Create a more structured marketing and awareness campaign targeted at the potential competitors. For instance, I think a list comprising pilots who ARE on the OLC list with some reasonable number of points (say 750 or more) and are NOT on the SSA Ranking List would be a great place to start using publicly available data.

Point being, while a few hardcore rules wonks argue over how many turnpoints fit on the head of a pin, a whole group of potential racing pilots isn't being addressed at all. This isn't unique to soaring, but since we have a small population of potential pilots to start with, we can't afford to address all potential populations.

Erik Mann (P3)



On Thursday, October 20, 2016 at 11:32:40 AM UTC-4, Branko Stojkovic wrote:
It looks like there we have a chicken-and-egg problem here, with two opposing propositions:

(a) The sport of soaring in America is on the decline because the contest rules are geared towards older pilots who'd prefer roaming through the skies all day to racing. Since this type of contest flying is not attractive to the younger competitive pilots, they are leaving the sport in droves.

(b) The decline in the sport of soaring in America is caused by the lack of new young glider pilots entering the ranks. Consequently, the glider pilot population is rapidly aging and the older pilots, who are now in the overwhelming majority, are tailoring the contest rules according to their own preferences. Most of the the senior pilots aren't very competitive and they enter contests in order to socialize and get some flying in. Others, who are still competitive at heart, realize that they no longer possess the psycho-physical capabilities required to be competitive with the hotshots like Sean, who are in their prime. Both groups of geezers, although for slightly different reasons, prefer the loosey-goosey tasks (like MAT and TAT with 30 mile radius) that currently prevail in the US contests.

From what I can tell, Sean and Wilbur subscribe to the proposition (a) and claim that changing the rules and turning the US contests into true racing competitions would bring about a renaissance in the sport of soaring in America.

However, what if the proposition (b) is the one much closer to the truth? What if the current arcane US contest rules are not the root cause, but rather the effect of the aging glider population and the decline in the sport of soaring in America? Then changing them would not do much, if anything, to fix the root cause of the problem.

As an illustration, take a look at the number of contestants in this year's Senior Soaring Championship (55 entries, 6 guests, and 7 on the waiting list), and compare it to this year's US Junior National Camp and Contest (6 entries). I rest my case.

However, there is a definite bright side for the competitive US glider pilots in their prime: they should find it relatively easy to do well enough in the US contests (given the past-their-prime competition) in order to qualify for the US gliding team. Compare this to the German or French gliding teams, where even the recent world champions are not assured of being selected.

Branko Stojkovic
XYU

Erik,

Nice analysis, Thanks for the effort. I also think that the "us/them" discussion overlooks the vast differences in distance that US competitors have to travel in order to compete "nationally". That plays in the time factor. In most European countries the travel across the country can be done in a day, two at the most, while if you want to do that in the US you need 4 days minimum (unless you want to be too fatigued to fly when you get there).

I'm in the "old man" age group, but I also want to race a defined course. I've been part of the soaring scene since the late '60's, as a crew first and then just an onlooker as my family came and the left home. I now get to jump in with both feet (wings) but the "contests" are not racing, just as Sean complains.

I'm on the west coast and it would take more than 15 days to take the trip to the SGP in FL. Not in the cards for me. I might have to take up the gauntlet to try and run one on the left coast.

Sean, I'll get in touch.

Mike

On Thursday, October 20, 2016 at 6:03:31 PM UTC-4, Papa3 wrote:
This is going to end up being a long post. But, I've thought about this stuff - a lot. The problem with these RAS debates is that a small number of people who have really strong opinions tend to create a lot of noise that gets in the way of real analysis.

Since very few people will read this whole post, I'm going to put the punch line first. Based on actual data collected from a reasonably large sample of potential racing pilots, it's pretty clear that the rules have nothing to do with keeping people out. Time is number one. Skill building is number two. Rules was way down on the list - in the bottom third.

Thanks Erik.

Same story in Region 1.

-Evan