Thrown out of an FBO...

What I am saying is that people should be able to express their
opinions freely without fearing negative reactions or reprimand from
others.

.... like saying "in my experience, Jews are all cheap *******s"?

Does it even matter if, in your experience, it's true?

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:
What I am saying is that people should be able to express their
opinions freely without fearing negative reactions or reprimand from
others.

... like saying "in my experience, Jews are all cheap *******s"?

Does it even matter if, in your experience, it's true?


Oh, good God... now I've heard it all. Jews have a long history of being
discriminated against in every part of the world. Some Jews are even
discriminated against in Israel. To your knowledge, what charter pilot has had
to deal with that sort of discrimination? Is there a large portion of the
world's population dedicating themselves to the destruction of charter pilots?

What an incredibly .... words fail me.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Jose wrote:
What I am saying is that people should be able to express their
opinions freely without fearing negative reactions or reprimand from
others.

... like saying "in my experience, Jews are all cheap *******s"?

Does it even matter if, in your experience, it's true?

Jose

If someone says "all pilots are spolied rich men", would you throw him
out of your house/airport/business? I hope not, because if you do, then
you will only be reinforcing that person's opinion of pilots. Instead,
I hope you will talk to that person calmly and patiently and educate
him on the subject.

If, on the other hand, Jay had walked up to the FBO pounding his fist
on the table, shouting to everyone at the lobby that all corporate
pilots are scums/*******s/assholes etc.. I could understand if he were
being thrown out, just like someone would get thrown out of a
restaurant/theater/airplane due to improper conduct. But that was
clearly not the case here.

The comment you mentioned above about Jews is not the same as the
examples we are talking about., The sole purpose of that comment is
derogatory and is meant to offend someone. I would rate that comment
along the same line as Jay pounding his fist and shouting at the FBO,
both of which call for a 'throwing out'.

"Jose" wrote

... like saying "in my experience, Jews are all cheap *******s"?

What's next, Jose? Going to recite a Hitler speech?
--
Jim in NC

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
oups.com...
What I am saying is that people should be able to express their
opinions freely without fearing negative reactions or reprimand from
others.

Well, first of all, Jay made his statement as one of fact, not opinion.
Secondly, I completely disagree that ALL opinions should be able to be made
without fear of a negative reaction (reprimand or otherwise). There are
LOTS of opinions that should be kept to oneself.

And before you go calling that attitude "politically correct", if you feel
that's the case then "politically correct" has been around for thousands of
years. Ironically, the culture within the US best known for its racism and
other inappropriate opinions is the one best known for being able to keep
those opinions to themselves and remain well-mannered and polite, even with
people that they scorn.

Some of these opinions could be wrong (and all of us are wrong
one time or another), but if the other person reacts violently, then
the person offering his opinion is only going to widthraw and harden
his beliefs.

I never said the other guy's reaction was appropriate. Personally, I'm
hard-pressed to think of any conversational faux pas that would justify
ejecting someone from a place of business. However, that doesn't mean Jay's
comment was appropriate in the first place. It just means that one would
normally expect the other person to take some higher ground than the
platform Jay was speaking from.

Pete

Peter Duniho wrote:
I never said the other guy's reaction was appropriate. Personally, I'm
hard-pressed to think of any conversational faux pas that would justify
ejecting someone from a place of business. However, that doesn't mean Jay's
comment was appropriate in the first place. It just means that one would
normally expect the other person to take some higher ground than the
platform Jay was speaking from.



You're from California, right? Or Washington state?



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Peter Duniho wrote:
"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
ups.com...
This person at the FBO displayed an overt intolerance towards a comment
he did not agree with.

Actually, the person at the FBO displayed an overt intolerance towards an
ignorant comment that he KNEW TO BE FALSE.

[...] what it boils down to is
intolerance towards different choices, and looking at everyone as 'with
us' or 'against us'.

This isn't about a "different choice". If I "choose", in a way different
from other people, to call you an asshole, or I tell you that every person
named "Andrew" that I've ever met was an idiot, and you react negatively
toward that, is it because you are "displaying an overt intolerance"? No,
it wouldn't be. It would be because *I* would be displaying an overt
prejudice. But you seem to think that I have every right to not only
believe something like that, but to tell it to your face, and expect you to
NOT react negatively.

Absurd.

I am amazed at the number of people defending Jay's insulting behavior. I
realize it's popular today to call any sort of consideration for other
people's feelings "politically correct", but really...you guys seem to be
making a sport out of the practice. It doesn't matter how polite or
"genteel" a person is, being ignorant and prejudiced is still a bad thing.
I've known plenty of well-mannered people who nevertheless didn't have a
clue when it came to avoiding insulting stereotypes.

Jay is one of them (and this isn't the first time we've seen him proving
it).

Pete

What I am saying is that people should be able to express their
opinions freely without fearing negative reactions or reprimand from
others. Some of these opinions could be wrong (and all of us are wrong
one time or another), but if the other person reacts violently, then
the person offering his opinion is only going to widthraw and harden
his beliefs. Dialog and respect to other's opinion is the only way to
overcome misinformation and improve understanding. If we start throwing
people out or getting upset at the first sign of disagreement, we will
never find a solution to our problems.

Based on Jay's description, he made a comment which he thought was
funny. He may have been insensitive, but I don't think he walked up to
that guy with the intention of insulting him. The right thing for the
FBO guy to do would be respond to Jay with common courtersy and
straighten his misconceptions about corporate pilots. 'Throwing him
out' only serves to harden the negative view Jay may have about
corporate pilots. It does nothing to improve relations.

Watched a show on the KKK the other day. Don't see how you can listen to any
of those guys' opinions without getting ****ed. But, hey...that's just me.

mike

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message


What I am saying is that people should be able to express their
opinions freely without fearing negative reactions or reprimand from
others.

"mike regish" wrote in
:

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message

What I am saying is that people should be able to express their
opinions freely without fearing negative reactions or reprimand from
others.

Watched a show on the KKK the other day. Don't see how you can listen to
any of those guys' opinions without getting ****ed. But, hey...that's
just me.

Yeah, but they take the "Jews are cheap *******s" to the next level by
adding, "so we should burn crosses on their lawn and kill them all."

And that's where their opinion goes from being mostly harmless, silly
stereotype to offensive and perhaps even intolerable.

But tolerance is not just about tolerating the differences that we all
have. It's about tolerating the people who don't - at least long enough to
have a chance to educate them. Sure, Jay's joke was insensitive and
tasteless. But it wasn't all that harmful by itself.

The reaction of the FBO Owner / Charter Pilot was immature and useless. He
would have been much better to smile and say, "I bet you didn't know I am
also a Charter Pilot." Then he might have changed Jay's opinion, even if
just a bit.

Tolerance goes both ways. If every time people get offended they
immediately shut the door and stomp their feet, no one will ever change.

Peter Duniho wrote:

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
ups.com...

This person at the FBO displayed an overt intolerance towards a comment
he did not agree with.


Actually, the person at the FBO displayed an overt intolerance towards an
ignorant comment that he KNEW TO BE FALSE.

He couldn't know it to be false. He was a sample of one.