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#1
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JS3 spins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NACT...gPoDgVInNY1mcE
Interesting that on the second turn the glider gets nose high. I have spun 2-32, K-21, ASW-24, North American SNJ-5, Ventus 2c, Nimbus 4 (quarter turn only), citabria, champ, Decathlon, maybe something else but I have never had the nose go above horizon. Can anyone tell of their experiences in a spin like this. The two most interring things I have had happen was one particular 2-32 would do an over the top spin enter from a deep slip and another would go from spin to spiral by itself. |
#2
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JS3 spins
On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 10:50:26 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NACT...gPoDgVInNY1mcE Interesting that on the second turn the glider gets nose high. I have spun 2-32, K-21, ASW-24, North American SNJ-5, Ventus 2c, Nimbus 4 (quarter turn only), citabria, champ, Decathlon, maybe something else but I have never had the nose go above horizon. Can anyone tell of their experiences in a spin like this. The two most interring things I have had happen was one particular 2-32 would do an over the top spin enter from a deep slip and another would go from spin to spiral by itself. Piper Super Cub was the other aircraft I had spun without ever having the nose point above horizon. I have had oscillations but nothing like the second turn of the JS3. Would like to understand a bit more about this an if there are techniques to keep the nose from going high other than recover sooner. Any shared experiences or comments welcomed. |
#3
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JS3 spins
I understand a number of high performance gliders show this
characteristic. I have personally observed the DG1000 which spins like this very prominently with the nose oscillating above and below the horizon, inputting the recovery actions when the nose is above the horizon seems to delay the recovery. At 17:55 26 October 2019, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote: On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 10:50:26 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrot= e: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DNACTj3A6- l0&fbclid=3DIwAR1F7UbdlNKesXWX= o9vghaM7xdMtjWjRyEhPMT26U9R2lgPoDgVInNY1mcE =20 Interesting that on the second turn the glider gets nose high. I have sp= un 2-32, K-21, ASW-24, North American SNJ-5, Ventus 2c, Nimbus 4 (quarter t= urn only), citabria, champ, Decathlon, maybe something else but I have neve= r had the nose go above horizon. Can anyone tell of their experiences in a= spin like this. The two most interring things I have had happen was one p= articular 2-32 would do an over the top spin enter from a deep slip and ano= ther would go from spin to spiral by itself. Piper Super Cub was the other aircraft I had spun without ever having the n= ose point above horizon. I have had oscillations but nothing like the seco= nd turn of the JS3. Would like to understand a bit more about this an if t= here are techniques to keep the nose from going high other than recover soo= ner. Any shared experiences or comments welcomed. |
#4
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JS3 spins
On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 6:55:34 PM UTC+1, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 10:50:26 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NACT...gPoDgVInNY1mcE Interesting that on the second turn the glider gets nose high. I have spun 2-32, K-21, ASW-24, North American SNJ-5, Ventus 2c, Nimbus 4 (quarter turn only), citabria, champ, Decathlon, maybe something else but I have never had the nose go above horizon. Can anyone tell of their experiences in a spin like this. The two most interring things I have had happen was one particular 2-32 would do an over the top spin enter from a deep slip and another would go from spin to spiral by itself. Piper Super Cub was the other aircraft I had spun without ever having the nose point above horizon. I have had oscillations but nothing like the second turn of the JS3. Would like to understand a bit more about this an if there are techniques to keep the nose from going high other than recover sooner. Any shared experiences or comments welcomed. Its the same with the JS1. I doubt that you can prevent that by anything you do from inside the cockpit and it doesn't affect the conventional spin recovery. As two types have completely different fuselages and wing mounting positions I guess it is a characteristic of the shared T12 airfoil and the very similar planforms (the JS3 wing being derived from the outer almost 9m of the JS1c 21 wing). |
#5
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JS3 spins
Think of the aircraft spinning about its velocity vector in a bending corkscrew kind of motion as the velocity vector transitions from horizontal to vertical. I would expect that the higher performance gliders will take longer for the velocity vector to arc over and so the change in orientation of the nose relative to the horizon will be more extreme - depending on a whole host of factors - starting velocity, c.g., etc.
My ASW-27 definitely oscillates relative to the horizon on the first turn, but the nose doesn't get above the horizon like the JS3. Good thing to know.. You don't want to get disoriented in the recovery. Here's a look, the first spin shows the nose approaching, but not going above the horizon. https://youtu.be/9aDJLDQ-5QU Andy Blackburn 9B On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 10:55:34 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote: On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 10:50:26 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NACT...gPoDgVInNY1mcE Interesting that on the second turn the glider gets nose high. I have spun 2-32, K-21, ASW-24, North American SNJ-5, Ventus 2c, Nimbus 4 (quarter turn only), citabria, champ, Decathlon, maybe something else but I have never had the nose go above horizon. Can anyone tell of their experiences in a spin like this. The two most interring things I have had happen was one particular 2-32 would do an over the top spin enter from a deep slip and another would go from spin to spiral by itself. Piper Super Cub was the other aircraft I had spun without ever having the nose point above horizon. I have had oscillations but nothing like the second turn of the JS3. Would like to understand a bit more about this an if there are techniques to keep the nose from going high other than recover sooner. Any shared experiences or comments welcomed. |
#6
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JS3 spins
Nice video, I miss minden. You probably need to hold her in that spin a little longer, another turn to see if the oscillations set up with a nose high pitch. I know when I had the 2-32, if I had someone of lighter weight in the front seat, the spin would oscillate pretty markedly after the first rotation. Prob due to a more rearward cg.
Incidentely, she would snap into an over the top spin readily even from a strong slip if she was aggravated into it. |
#7
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JS3 spins
On Saturday, October 26, 2019 at 11:50:26 AM UTC-6, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NACT...gPoDgVInNY1mcE Interesting that on the second turn the glider gets nose high. I have spun 2-32, K-21, ASW-24, North American SNJ-5, Ventus 2c, Nimbus 4 (quarter turn only), citabria, champ, Decathlon, maybe something else but I have never had the nose go above horizon. Can anyone tell of their experiences in a spin like this. The two most interring things I have had happen was one particular 2-32 would do an over the top spin enter from a deep slip and another would go from spin to spiral by itself. I wonder if it is has anything to do with the fact that he is keeping the stick all the way back into the second turn. In real life, you would release back pressure as soon as the spin started to recover as soon as possible. |
#8
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JS3 spins
I’ve had the nose oscillate up and down in a spin in a DG 1000, as the nose comes up, the rate of rotation slows, then speeds up again as the nose drops.
Conventional wisdom is the T tail is going in and out of the wing wake causes this. |
#9
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JS3 spins
Remember, the glider is flying level before the rotation starts. Books show aircraft descending vertically at departure but in reality the rotation starts along the original flight path. This is why from the cockpit it appears to be a nose high oscillation. Once the glider loses it's forward momentum it descends vertically and the view from the cockpit becomes normal without the apparent oscillation.
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#10
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JS3 spins
No. A Discus b would keep this oscillation with the nose coming up above the horizon all the way down to impact.
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