Prepping for IR checkride - questions

"Paul Folbrecht" wrote in message
news:N_ixd.160722

Make sure you have had plenty to eat about an hour before the start. It is
amazing how much energy you burn just on the oral and you need to make sure
you have plenty of energy left for the flying.

Do not be tempted to skip eating because of nerves etc. The food is really
important.

Assuming your instructor thinks you are ready, then you likely are and all
you need to do is follow strategies that raise your likelihood of success.

I set myself the target of flying within half the deviations than those
required for the PTS. That reduces any corrections necessary and avoids
swinging from one extreme to another with over corrections and a high chance
of blowing the limits.

The other tip is to talk to yourself when you are doing things. I find that
the brain lets me make errors if I just think something whereas when I say
it out aloud there are less errors. Also, it lets the examiner know what you
are thinking about.

I had the situation during my checkride where I had misdialled in the ILS
frequency. When I was getting nothing on the ident, I talked my way through
the issue. The DPE knew I knew something was wrong and knew that I was going
to catch the mistake as I went through the rechecking process aloud.

Mistake spotted and rectified, happy DPE, happy me. In the debrief he said
the commentary was a good habit to have especially in a single pilot
situation as one needed to challenge oneself.

Chris

ps good luck

Based on my experience from my checkride, the examiner is looking to see
if you understand what's going on and can deal with it safely. I
completely blew my partial panel approach royally. I can't remember the
details of what happened, I just remember being confused and turned
around in my head, be it nerves or what (and I'm sure there would be
nerves if I ever really had to fly a partial panel VOR approach).
Anyway, the examiner later told me that he had very nearly started to
fill out a pink slip when I said (he was playing ATC) "Memphis Center,
669RA would like to fly direct Hot Springs VOR and restart the
approach." "Cessna 9RA, c/m 3k, fly direct HOT cleared VOR ZAPLE
approach." Everything from there on went great. Just pay attention,
and show that you can safely handle the plane.

Paul Folbrecht wrote:
Hello all,

I've made the appointment for my IR checkride, although it's still a
ways out, and had a couple things on my mind.

1) Concerning the heading standards (+- 10 degrees, of course), I find
that I still, at this point, _occasionally_ exceed them, _especially_ in
prepping for an approach (though I have a yoke-mounted clip for my
plates I still find my scan degrading a bit when I'm prepping & setting
up). So, that's occasionally, not _consistently_, getting off-heading
by more than 10d (probably 20d at the most). How picky are most
examiners about this type of thing? I know that the PTS states that
"consistent" exceeding of the standards is grounds for failure, so I
rather hope that me getting off-course by, say 20d, then correcting
immediatly, isn't going to have a huge impact. But who knows. Perhaps
my skills are still not quite up to snuff. BTW I have about 33h total
instrument time now, about 8 of which is in a FTD.

2) I also seem to have a devil of a time passing DIRECTLY OVER a VOR
(when I say "VOR" of course I mean "VOR or "VORTAC", etc.), for instance
when flying a full approach and the navaid is the IAF I'm using. My
instructor tells me that I ought to fly so directly over that thing that
the CDI is perfectly centered and then immediately flips from "to" to
"from" on passage, with only an instant of the flag. What I tend to do
is be off by just a bit, getting full-deflection on the CDI (for a
second or two) before the flip. He correctly points out that the
standards call out 3/4 deflection as max deflection, and there seems to
be nothing to account for this type of thing. So, is this (passing
directly, I mean directly, over the navaid) a skill that I really should
have down by the time of the checkride? Just looking for a 2nd (and
possibly 3rd-150th) opinion here.

Thanks,
~Paul

P.S. I scored a 98% on my written and am a bit worried that this may
indicate I know nothing at all of real-world IFR flying! It also may
indicate that I think like the FAA, which scares me even more. Perhaps
I should retake and hope for a lower score?

"Paul Folbrecht" wrote in message
...
P.S. I scored a 98% on my written and am a bit worried that this may
indicate I know nothing at all of real-world IFR flying! It also may
indicate that I think like the FAA, which scares me even more. Perhaps
I should retake and hope for a lower score?


I hope this is a joke. The "don't get too high a score on the knowledge
test" theory is yet another aviation myth. Hint: the examiner already
knowns you don't know anything about real-world IFR flying...you don't
have
your rating yet.

Yes, it was certainly a joke. :-) It was funny, too, damn it.
Although, thinking like the FAA is something that would scare me a bit.

It would be funny if it weren't for the instructors out there chiding their
students for doing "too good".

Thankfully the FAA has plenty of other asinine policies that are nearly that
absurd.

Matt Whiting wrote:
Your flight instructor doesn't understand very well how a VOR
transmitter works. The cone of confusion gets larger with increasing
altitude. If you fly over the VOR about 50' above it, then the
deflection would be for "just an instant." If you fly over at 10,000
feet, the full scale deflection can last for quite some time (several
seconds at least), depending on how fast an airplane you are flying.


If you are getting full scale deflection then you are not in
the cone of confusion. You are also not passing directly over the
station. The cone of confusion is the volume directly over the
station where there is no VOR signal. That's why it's called the
cone of confusion. If you are getting a signal, then you should
not be confused.

The goal should be to go from a needle-centered TO indication, to a
no-signal flag for 1-2 seconds, to a needle-centered FROM indication.
There should not be any full-scale swing of the CDI needle. While
this is challenging and takes practice, it is by no means
impossible. Autopilots do it all the time.

Ross Oliver wrote:

Matt Whiting wrote:

Your flight instructor doesn't understand very well how a VOR
transmitter works. The cone of confusion gets larger with increasing
altitude. If you fly over the VOR about 50' above it, then the
deflection would be for "just an instant." If you fly over at 10,000
feet, the full scale deflection can last for quite some time (several
seconds at least), depending on how fast an airplane you are flying.



If you are getting full scale deflection then you are not in
the cone of confusion. You are also not passing directly over the
station. The cone of confusion is the volume directly over the
station where there is no VOR signal. That's why it's called the
cone of confusion. If you are getting a signal, then you should
not be confused.

The goal should be to go from a needle-centered TO indication, to a
no-signal flag for 1-2 seconds, to a needle-centered FROM indication.
There should not be any full-scale swing of the CDI needle. While
this is challenging and takes practice, it is by no means
impossible. Autopilots do it all the time.

Every VOR I've flown has a needle the swings wildly from side to side or
goes full-scale to one side when crossing a VOR. Doesn't matter how
precisely the VOR is crossed. The off flag appears as well, but the
needle doesn't just sit in the donut through all of this. Maybe you'll
believe the Air Force.

http://www.vusaf.org/aetc/documents/VOR%20MANEUVERS%20_PART%202.pdf#search='vor%20cone %20of%20confusion'


Matt

1)As long as it is occasional deviations and you catch it and point it
out to him it will not be an issue. Just talk to your self as you make
the correction. "Ok, get back on 210" then just make sure you actually
do get back on 210. The examiner probably already caught that you were
off heading and is just waiting to see if you will catch it.

My examiner let me fly 400 feet below the MDA for a full minute or more
before he busted me. I bet if I had caught and corrected it he would
have passed me. The next time I made sure I read the chart correctly.


Another instructor I work with walked in after just letting a student
solo and told me. "That guy can't do a good landing to save his life,
on the other hand he is better at saving bad landings than I am" The
point being I would rather fly with pilot that makes and recognizes his
mistakes than one that never makes a mistake. I don't know what the guy
that never makes mistakes will do when he does make one.

2) As you Cross over the Vor turn 10-15 degrees toward the needle swing
and hold that correction until the needl starts coming back. Your
instructor is correct that it should just switch and that that should
be your target, but you will seldom hit it. Aim for perfection, and
take the best you can get.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

Brian wrote:
2) As you Cross over the Vor turn 10-15 degrees toward the needle swing
and hold that correction until the needl starts coming back.

It really helps to know how far you are from the station, using DME,
GPS, or a crossing radial. Five miles out, you still want to be
tracking back to the radial. One mile out, calling it close enough
and holding heading makes more sense. Without a good idea of how far
out you are, it's hard to know which is the right strategy.

I still remember one training flight I took years ago where I saw the
CDI head out to the peg and confidently said to my instructor, "We're
almost on top of the VOR, so I'm not going to chase the needle; I'll
just hold heading and wait for the To/From to flip". In reality, we
were still a bunch of miles out and he just sat there watching me head
off into space.

Matt Whiting wrote:
Every VOR I've flown has a needle the swings wildly from side to side or
goes full-scale to one side when crossing a VOR. Doesn't matter how
precisely the VOR is crossed. The off flag appears as well, but the
needle doesn't just sit in the donut through all of this. Maybe you'll
believe the Air Force.

http://www.vusaf.org/aetc/documents/VOR%20MANEUVERS%20_PART%202.pdf#search='vor%20cone %20of%20confusion'


From the referenced document:

The cone of confusion is an area above the station where the signal
from the antenna is not receivable and therefore is not reliable.

So, yes, I do believe the Air Force. Show me a CDI that does not center
the needle when the VOR signal is lost.

I also challenge your claim that the needle will swing "wildly from side
to side." Passing slightly abeam the station will cause the needle to
go full deflection in one direction and stay there until after station
passage. In a properly functioning CDI, there should be no side-to-side
swinging.

_Excellent_ point. My VFR GPS helps so much for situational awareness
(I have no DME), and I'm still struggling a bit with whether to use it
on the checkride. As of now I have it on the copilot yoke anyway
(because I need my chart clip and timer on my yoke) but I can still look
at it if need be. One component to the question is whether or not the
DE will just choose to make me do without it anyway.

It really helps to know how far you are from the station, using DME,
GPS, or a crossing radial. Five miles out, you still want to be
tracking back to the radial. One mile out, calling it close enough
and holding heading makes more sense. Without a good idea of how far
out you are, it's hard to know which is the right strategy.

I still remember one training flight I took years ago where I saw the
CDI head out to the peg and confidently said to my instructor, "We're
almost on top of the VOR, so I'm not going to chase the needle; I'll
just hold heading and wait for the To/From to flip". In reality, we
were still a bunch of miles out and he just sat there watching me head
off into space.

My examiner left our panel mounted VFR GPS on while I was doing partial
panel stuff. After that approach, I noticed him casually turn the GPS to a
page that didn't give me any useful info. Not sure if it was on purpose or
not. At least it gave me a chance to see how the winds were affecting my
ground track. Made the next 2 approaches, even without GPS, a bit easier.


"Paul Folbrecht" wrote in message
...
_Excellent_ point. My VFR GPS helps so much for situational awareness
(I have no DME), and I'm still struggling a bit with whether to use it
on the checkride. As of now I have it on the copilot yoke anyway
(because I need my chart clip and timer on my yoke) but I can still look
at it if need be. One component to the question is whether or not the
DE will just choose to make me do without it anyway.

It really helps to know how far you are from the station, using DME,
GPS, or a crossing radial. Five miles out, you still want to be
tracking back to the radial. One mile out, calling it close enough
and holding heading makes more sense. Without a good idea of how far
out you are, it's hard to know which is the right strategy.

I still remember one training flight I took years ago where I saw the
CDI head out to the peg and confidently said to my instructor, "We're
almost on top of the VOR, so I'm not going to chase the needle; I'll
just hold heading and wait for the To/From to flip". In reality, we
were still a bunch of miles out and he just sat there watching me head
off into space.