FAA Accuses British Airways of Recklessness

JL Grasso :

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 15:35:24 +0000, Pooh Bear
wrote:



Limey wrote:

"Sam Whitman" wrote in message
...
Limey wrote:


§ 121.11 Rules applicable to operations in a foreign country.
Each certificate holder shall, while operating an airplane within
a foreign
country, comply with the air traffic rules of the country
concerned and the
local airport rules, except where any rule of this part is more
restrictive
and may be followed without violating the rules of that country.


which, as best I can tell, means they need to comply with Part
91, and applicable Part 121 rules while in US airspace.

Incorret. 14 CFR 121.11 refers to USA carriers certificated to
fly under 14 CFR
121 operating in foreign (non-USA) territories or countries.

OK, I just assumed that there may be some relevance being that the
more restrictive 121 rules might apply, but that is prolly covered
under 129, with which I am not at all familiar. Thx for the
clarification.

Like any other
non-USA carrier certified to fly in the USA, British Airways
operates under part
129 while in the USA.

Intruiged that you pilots seem to find room for disagreement over
which FARs apply.


Maybe someday planespotting will be regulated.


Someone needs to do something before there's a disaster!
Tea could be spilt on thousands!


Bertei

"JL Grasso" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 15:35:24 +0000, Pooh Bear
wrote:



Limey wrote:

"Sam Whitman" wrote in message
...
Limey wrote:


§ 121.11 Rules applicable to operations in a foreign country.
Each certificate holder shall, while operating an airplane within a
foreign
country, comply with the air traffic rules of the country concerned
and
the
local airport rules, except where any rule of this part is more
restrictive
and may be followed without violating the rules of that country.

which, as best I can tell, means they need to comply with Part 91,
and
applicable Part 121 rules while in US airspace.

Incorret. 14 CFR 121.11 refers to USA carriers certificated to fly
under
14 CFR
121 operating in foreign (non-USA) territories or countries.

OK, I just assumed that there may be some relevance being that the more
restrictive 121 rules might apply, but that is prolly covered under 129,
with which I am not at all familiar. Thx for the clarification.

Like any other
non-USA carrier certified to fly in the USA, British Airways operates
under part
129 while in the USA.

Intruiged that you pilots seem to find room for disagreement over which
FARs
apply.


Maybe someday planespotting will be regulated.


Ouch!
Kb.

Pooh Bear
:

Limey wrote:

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...

Intruiged that you pilots seem to find room for disagreement over
which FARs
apply.

Part 129 .Operations: Foreign air carriers and foreign operators of
U.S.-registered aircraft engaged in common carriage. Section 19 -
Air traffic
rules and procedures

(a) Each pilot must be familiar with the applicable rules, the
navigational and
communications facilities, and the air traffic control and other
procedures, of
the areas to be traversed by him within the United States.

(b) Each foreign air carrier shall establish procedures to assure
that each of
its pilots has the knowledge required by paragraph (a) of this
section and shall check the ability of each of its pilots to
operate safely according to
applicable rules and procedures.

* (c) Each foreign air carrier shall conform to the practices,
procedures, and
other requirements prescribed by the Administrator for U.S. air
carriers for
the areas to be operated in. *

129.19(c) appears to infer that foreign carriers have to comply
with Part 121
whilst in US airspace.

Kind of what I thought but didn't look into properly. Better that you
do it, seeing that you have more time on yer hands.

I have a few free moments - sure. Didn't take me more than about 15
mins to work through the FARs to find it though.


Either way, if you're implying that "you pilots" ought to know all
the regs, that's ridiculous.

And I'm *not* implying that btw. Just intruiged to see how many
opininons came into discussion.


We're only required to be familiar with the ones that
apply to the particular type of flying we're doing, which makes my
job easy.

Limey.

Actually, you have my agreement. The FARs are written in 'legalese'
and often appear to be confusing and even possibly contradictory.


Who gives a fjuk what you think?
Planespotting****.





Bertie

Limey wrote:

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...

Intruiged that you pilots seem to find room for disagreement over which
FARs
apply.

Part 129 .Operations: Foreign air carriers and foreign operators of
U.S.-registered aircraft engaged in common carriage. Section 19 - Air
traffic
rules and procedures

(a) Each pilot must be familiar with the applicable rules, the
navigational and
communications facilities, and the air traffic control and other
procedures, of
the areas to be traversed by him within the United States.

(b) Each foreign air carrier shall establish procedures to assure that
each of
its pilots has the knowledge required by paragraph (a) of this section and
shall check the ability of each of its pilots to operate safely according
to
applicable rules and procedures.

* (c) Each foreign air carrier shall conform to the practices, procedures,
and
other requirements prescribed by the Administrator for U.S. air carriers
for
the areas to be operated in. *

129.19(c) appears to infer that foreign carriers have to comply with Part
121
whilst in US airspace.

Kind of what I thought but didn't look into properly. Better that you do it,
seeing that you have more time on yer hands.

I have a few free moments - sure. Didn't take me more than about 15 mins to work
through the FARs to find it though.


Either way, if you're implying that "you pilots" ought to know all the regs,
that's ridiculous.

And I'm *not* implying that btw. Just intruiged to see how many opininons came
into discussion.


We're only required to be familiar with the ones that
apply to the particular type of flying we're doing, which makes my job easy.

Limey.

Actually, you have my agreement. The FARs are written in 'legalese' and often
appear to be confusing and even possibly contradictory.

Pilots have more important things to do than have to worry about the wording of
some obscure clause in the regs. For this the legislators are to blame for
making things frankly *unclear*.


Graham

Thialfi wrote:
In article
Sam Whitman wrote:

Thialfi wrote:

In article
Sam Whitman wrote:

Read it again, especially pargraph (b). Then read 121.627.
Continuing flight for several thousand miles and an ocean
with a
catastrophic engine failure may seem reasonable to you, but
the
NTSB has repeatedly ruled that it's not safe to THEM.
And they get to make that decision; you don't.

NTSB won't be making any decisions regarding this.

That's true - British Airways will be offered a chance to pay a
civil penalty in lieu of revocation of their certificate.

They'll pay it.

And every American carrier that enters British airspace will be
subjected to -their- minutae..
Imagine an automatic maintenance check of every US carrier entering EU
airspace..
No-one (I hope) is so stupid they want their airlines grounded

"JL Grasso" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 15:35:24 +0000, Pooh Bear
wrote:



Limey wrote:

"Sam Whitman" wrote in message
...
Limey wrote:


§ 121.11 Rules applicable to operations in a foreign country.
Each certificate holder shall, while operating an airplane within a
foreign
country, comply with the air traffic rules of the country concerned
and
the
local airport rules, except where any rule of this part is more
restrictive
and may be followed without violating the rules of that country.

which, as best I can tell, means they need to comply with Part 91,
and
applicable Part 121 rules while in US airspace.

Incorret. 14 CFR 121.11 refers to USA carriers certificated to fly
under
14 CFR
121 operating in foreign (non-USA) territories or countries.

OK, I just assumed that there may be some relevance being that the more
restrictive 121 rules might apply, but that is prolly covered under
129,
with which I am not at all familiar. Thx for the clarification.

Like any other
non-USA carrier certified to fly in the USA, British Airways operates
under part
129 while in the USA.

Intruiged that you pilots seem to find room for disagreement over which
FARs
apply.


Maybe someday planespotting will be regulated.

Jerry

Considering the current regs re access to approach/departure ends of Rys.
due security concerns, "Planespotting" is already regulated.
Ralph Nesbitt
Professional FD/CFR/ARFF Type
Posting From ADA

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...
Limey wrote:

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...

Intruiged that you pilots seem to find room for disagreement over which
FARs
apply.

Part 129 .Operations: Foreign air carriers and foreign operators of
U.S.-registered aircraft engaged in common carriage. Section 19 - Air
traffic
rules and procedures

(a) Each pilot must be familiar with the applicable rules, the
navigational and
communications facilities, and the air traffic control and other
procedures, of
the areas to be traversed by him within the United States.

(b) Each foreign air carrier shall establish procedures to assure that
each of
its pilots has the knowledge required by paragraph (a) of this section
and
shall check the ability of each of its pilots to operate safely
according
to
applicable rules and procedures.

* (c) Each foreign air carrier shall conform to the practices,
procedures,
and
other requirements prescribed by the Administrator for U.S. air
carriers
for
the areas to be operated in. *

129.19(c) appears to infer that foreign carriers have to comply with
Part
121
whilst in US airspace.

Kind of what I thought but didn't look into properly. Better that you do
it,
seeing that you have more time on yer hands.

I have a few free moments - sure. Didn't take me more than about 15 mins
to work
through the FARs to find it though.

Good, that's about 13 mins more than I apply to most responses here.


Either way, if you're implying that "you pilots" ought to know all the
regs,
that's ridiculous.

And I'm *not* implying that btw. Just intruiged to see how many opininons
came
into discussion.


We're only required to be familiar with the ones that
apply to the particular type of flying we're doing, which makes my job
easy.


Actually, you have my agreement. The FARs are written in 'legalese' and
often
appear to be confusing and even possibly contradictory.

Not in my limited experience.

Pilots have more important things to do than have to worry about the
wording of
some obscure clause in the regs.

Yup, whose round is it?

Limey.

Thialfi wrote:

In article
Sam Whitman wrote:

If FAA decides to follow through with more than press releases
and
grandstanding as they threaten, they face an uphill legal
battle in view
of treaties USA has signed. If they decide to fine or ban
British
Airways for *following procedures in its own manual* then the
USA
shouldn't be surprised shortly afterward when one or more US
flagged
airlines is banned from British airspace.

You seriously think that Tony the Poodle would do such a thing?

I don't.

I thot he was the Blair Witch Project
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Tommy, come on up here, have you ever been up in the cockpit before?
Captain Under - Airplane

Limey wrote:

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...
Limey wrote:

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...

Intruiged that you pilots seem to find room for disagreement over which
FARs
apply.

Part 129 .Operations: Foreign air carriers and foreign operators of
U.S.-registered aircraft engaged in common carriage. Section 19 - Air
traffic
rules and procedures

(a) Each pilot must be familiar with the applicable rules, the
navigational and
communications facilities, and the air traffic control and other
procedures, of
the areas to be traversed by him within the United States.

(b) Each foreign air carrier shall establish procedures to assure that
each of
its pilots has the knowledge required by paragraph (a) of this section
and
shall check the ability of each of its pilots to operate safely
according
to
applicable rules and procedures.

* (c) Each foreign air carrier shall conform to the practices,
procedures,
and
other requirements prescribed by the Administrator for U.S. air
carriers
for
the areas to be operated in. *

129.19(c) appears to infer that foreign carriers have to comply with
Part
121
whilst in US airspace.

Kind of what I thought but didn't look into properly. Better that you do
it,
seeing that you have more time on yer hands.

I have a few free moments - sure. Didn't take me more than about 15 mins
to work
through the FARs to find it though.

Good, that's about 13 mins more than I apply to most responses here.


Either way, if you're implying that "you pilots" ought to know all the
regs,
that's ridiculous.

And I'm *not* implying that btw. Just intruiged to see how many opininons
came
into discussion.


We're only required to be familiar with the ones that
apply to the particular type of flying we're doing, which makes my job
easy.


Actually, you have my agreement. The FARs are written in 'legalese' and
often
appear to be confusing and even possibly contradictory.

Not in my limited experience.

Pilots have more important things to do than have to worry about the
wording of
some obscure clause in the regs.

Yup, whose round is it?

Limey.

who's able to read their cellphone to call the hotel for a pickup?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Tommy, come on up here, have you ever been up in the cockpit before?
Captain Ovuer - Airplane

"Captain Clarance Ovuer" wrote in
message ...
Limey wrote:

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...
Limey wrote:

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
...

Intruiged that you pilots seem to find room for disagreement over
which
FARs
apply.

Part 129 .Operations: Foreign air carriers and foreign operators of
U.S.-registered aircraft engaged in common carriage. Section 19 -
Air
traffic
rules and procedures

(a) Each pilot must be familiar with the applicable rules, the
navigational and
communications facilities, and the air traffic control and other
procedures, of
the areas to be traversed by him within the United States.

(b) Each foreign air carrier shall establish procedures to assure
that
each of
its pilots has the knowledge required by paragraph (a) of this
section
and
shall check the ability of each of its pilots to operate safely
according
to
applicable rules and procedures.

* (c) Each foreign air carrier shall conform to the practices,
procedures,
and
other requirements prescribed by the Administrator for U.S. air
carriers
for
the areas to be operated in. *

129.19(c) appears to infer that foreign carriers have to comply with
Part
121
whilst in US airspace.

Kind of what I thought but didn't look into properly. Better that you
do
it,
seeing that you have more time on yer hands.

I have a few free moments - sure. Didn't take me more than about 15
mins
to work
through the FARs to find it though.

Good, that's about 13 mins more than I apply to most responses here.


Either way, if you're implying that "you pilots" ought to know all the
regs,
that's ridiculous.

And I'm *not* implying that btw. Just intruiged to see how many
opininons
came
into discussion.


We're only required to be familiar with the ones that
apply to the particular type of flying we're doing, which makes my job
easy.


Actually, you have my agreement. The FARs are written in 'legalese' and
often
appear to be confusing and even possibly contradictory.

Not in my limited experience.

Pilots have more important things to do than have to worry about the
wording of
some obscure clause in the regs.

Yup, whose round is it?

Limey.

who's able to read their cellphone to call the hotel for a pickup?


.....another pickup crack?
ENOUGH with the Marine, already!

Limey.