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MOGAS availability database



 
 
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  #11  
Old April 28th 05, 04:49 AM
Rich S.
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"Newps" wrote in message
...

Funny stuff, if it wasn't so assinine.


You Sir, are a boorish dolt. Your language is offensive and you, no doubt,
know not of what you speak.

I do. Been there - done that. Won't be stupid enough to do it again.

If you don't like what you are hearing, be polite enough to shut the **** up
and do what you like.

Are you associated with ANN?

Rich S.


  #12  
Old April 28th 05, 06:52 AM
Dave S
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You are presuming that I am going to use the stock ECU (engine control
unit)..which is the last thing I would do. Stock ECU's do strange and
unpredictable things like turn off (or power down) the engine to
"protect" it when sensor readings get out of spec (like oil temp or
pressure parameters, etc)

The issue of ECU's have been discussed EXTENSIVELY in the forums that I
frequent: one is a list-serv dedicated to rotary engines, and the other
is a canard forum with a rotary engine portion. If you were a member
there you could spend hours and still not cover all the material, some
practical and some theoretical.

The ECU we will be using will be able to tune/make program adjustments
to the fuel map, but once programmed can operate without input from the
sensor.

Also, the neat thing about the Mazda rotary is.. no valves.

Dave

AINut wrote:
All of the dozen or so airports I've contacted about mogas only have 87
octane. All are considerably higher priced than the most expensive gas
station.

If you use 100ll in an engine that has valves designed for no lead
usage, you're probably going to lose that engine. Also, the O2 sensors
will clog with lead very shortly. A propane torch can burn the lead off
it but you'll have to remove all the O2 sensors to do that. If the O2
sensors clog up during flight, the engine computer will go into limp
home mode. This usually means a *drastic* cut in horsepower, sometimes
engine stoppage.

HTH.



Dave S wrote:



Rich S. wrote:
Make that last idea a *must*, Dave. You don't know what you are

getting out

of a strange mogas tank. It may be 100° out and that mogas could've
been sitting in the tank since winter. My commandments read:
1. Never use mogas from an unfamiliar source.
2. Always test for alcohol.
3. Never use mogas above 5,000' density altitude.
4. Always check for water.
5. Never use mogas above 80° F.

Remember - 100 LL can foul a spark plug. Mogas can boil, give you
vapor lock, and stop your engine RFN. Which would you prefer? Would
you like fries with that?

Rich S.




Dude... I'm using mogas because I'm using a MO-engine. I've driven
cars at over 5000 ft (Lake Tahoe.. 9000 ft) MSL.. and in temps over
100* F... and alcohol wont hurt MY engine because the seals in it and
the fuel system are DESIGNED to use motor gas in all of its domestic
forumulations. I think some of those "absolutes" you are listing are
overkill.

I will be using fuel injected engine with an automotive fuel rail
regulated at 40 PSI over upper deck pressure..through a recirculating
fuel circut with firesleeved hoses. I don't think vapor lock is gonna
be the issue here. I'm just planning on using 100LL because I dont
want to land on a 2000 ft sod strip 40 miles from the nearest town of
over 50,000 people. I'm into flying to travel to where the people are


  #13  
Old April 28th 05, 06:57 AM
Dave S
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Rich S. wrote:

"Newps" wrote in message
...

Funny stuff, if it wasn't so assinine.



You Sir, are a boorish dolt. Your language is offensive and you, no doubt,
know not of what you speak.

I do. Been there - done that. Won't be stupid enough to do it again.

If you don't like what you are hearing, be polite enough to shut the **** up
and do what you like.

Are you associated with ANN?

Rich S.


Actually I think he's an ATC type, Atlanta Center or something. I've
noticed he usually has the ATC issues down pat and can quote chapter and
verse regarding them.

I also thought the restrictions were a little over the top, but I'm not
running mo-gas in a carburated lycoming or continental, so its an
apples/oranges comparison. You have ground rules that you have
established based on what your personal safety margin is.. I cant argue
with that at all.

The strange source caveat DOES apply to me, more so with low volume
providers who usually let their first customer of the day sump their
tanks for them by filling up their plane. Again, from a practical
standpoint, the fuel will be tankered in my pickup truck with a 50
gallon transfer tank.. all the rest will be blue stuff.. its just too
much hassle otherwise (unless my favorite uncle in SC lets me leave a
transfer tank in his favorite truck)

Dave


  #14  
Old April 28th 05, 07:02 AM
Peter Duniho
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"Rich S." wrote in message
...
[...]
Gas that is not blended for altitude and or season (temperature) can make
the fan stop turning. In your car, you likely bought gas that was intended
for use at Lake Tahoe and/or in temps over 100° F.


That's silly. We have driven a Suburban, with its 42 gallon tank, all over
the US, including Lake Tahoe. We bought the fuel we rode into Tahoe on at
least 500 miles away, not far above sea level, in the desert. Many times,
fuel purchased in one locale took us right into a place with completely
different characteristics (altitude, temperature, whatever).

I wouldn't be surprised to find there are road vehicles with even greater
range (the actual range of our Suburban is about 800 miles, but we didn't
roll into Lake Tahoe on fumes, of course). In fact, I'm pretty sure the
hybrids do, and I know at least two that have been driven on long trips.
Never heard any complaints about gas troubles there either.

I've seen the "well, but the auto gas is specially formulated for the region
in which it's sold" line before. It just doesn't hold up to common sense
and personal experience. If the gas *is* specially formulated, then using
it in the "wrong" place certainly doesn't cause anything so serious as
engine stoppage, or even any significant performance difference (ie,
noticeable by the driver).

Pete


  #15  
Old April 28th 05, 02:08 PM
Trent Moorehead
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"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...
"Rich S." wrote in message
...
[...]
Gas that is not blended for altitude and or season (temperature) can

make
the fan stop turning. In your car, you likely bought gas that was

intended
for use at Lake Tahoe and/or in temps over 100° F.


That's silly. We have driven a Suburban, with its 42 gallon tank, all

over
the US, including Lake Tahoe. We bought the fuel we rode into Tahoe on at
least 500 miles away, not far above sea level, in the desert. Many times,
fuel purchased in one locale took us right into a place with completely
different characteristics (altitude, temperature, whatever).


Formulations aside, my big concern with buying mogas from a podunk airport
tank is that the gas could be old and contaminated. This would be due to the
small number of planes that are actually set up to burn mogas. With 100LL,
you can feel a bit more assured that the fuel has a had a decent "turnover"
rate and the fuel is fresher and cleaner.

-Trent
PP-ASEL


  #16  
Old April 28th 05, 03:38 PM
Newps
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Dave S wrote:


Actually I think he's an ATC type, Atlanta Center or something.


ATC yes. A center? Good God no.


I also thought the restrictions were a little over the top,


They are ridiculous.


but I'm not
running mo-gas in a carburated lycoming or continental,


I am. Hot summers, 90+ here at home at 3650 MSL, which works out to
approx 7000 DA and also play in the mountains. Sky is the limit for DA
there. To say that you won't use mogas above say 70 or 80 degrees or
above a certain DA just shows a complete lack of knoweledge.

  #17  
Old April 28th 05, 03:46 PM
Newps
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Peter Duniho wrote:

"Rich S." wrote in message
...

[...]
Gas that is not blended for altitude and or season (temperature) can make
the fan stop turning. In your car, you likely bought gas that was intended
for use at Lake Tahoe and/or in temps over 100° F.



That's silly. We have driven a Suburban, with its 42 gallon tank, all over
the US, including Lake Tahoe. We bought the fuel we rode into Tahoe on at
least 500 miles away, not far above sea level, in the desert.


No kidding. I can drive 65 miles from my 100+ degree summer temps to
the Top of the World store on the Beartooth Pass, elev 11,000 and temps
in the 30's on an average day. They sell the same gas as I buy here.
The fact is the higher the altitude the lower quality of gas that you need.
  #18  
Old April 28th 05, 03:49 PM
Newps
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Trent Moorehead wrote:




Formulations aside, my big concern with buying mogas from a podunk airport
tank is that the gas could be old and contaminated. This would be due to the
small number of planes that are actually set up to burn mogas. With 100LL,
you can feel a bit more assured that the fuel has a had a decent "turnover"
rate and the fuel is fresher and cleaner.


From a podunk airport all bets are off for any type of gas. My
mechanic is the manager of just such an airport. He installed a 12,000
gallon 100LL above ground self fueling setup a few years ago. He
sometimes doesn't buy gas for 7-8 months.
  #19  
Old April 28th 05, 03:55 PM
Jay Honeck
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--
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
"Rich S." wrote in message
...
"Dave S" wrote in message
k.net...
Dude... I'm using mogas because I'm using a MO-engine. I've driven cars
at over 5000 ft (Lake Tahoe.. 9000 ft) MSL.. and in temps over 100* F...
and alcohol wont hurt MY engine because the seals in it and the fuel
system are DESIGNED to use motor gas in all of its domestic
forumulations. I think some of those "absolutes" you are listing are
overkill.

I will be using fuel injected engine with an automotive fuel rail
regulated at 40 PSI over upper deck pressure..through a recirculating
fuel circut with firesleeved hoses. I don't think vapor lock is gonna be
the issue here. I'm just planning on using 100LL because I dont want to
land on a 2000 ft sod strip 40 miles from the nearest town of over 50,000
people. I'm into flying to travel to where the people are


So? You've a different set of commandments. I just related *mine*. :^)

Rich S.



  #20  
Old April 28th 05, 03:59 PM
Jay Honeck
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1. Never use mogas from an unfamiliar source.

At an airport? That's crazy. From a car gas station? Absolutely.

2. Always test for alcohol.


Good idea, if you don't know the source.

3. Never use mogas above 5,000' density altitude.


Nonsense.

4. Always check for water.


Absolutely. Same with avgas.

5. Never use mogas above 80° F.


That's ridiculous.

Our plane has run on mogas (Lycoming O-540) since we bought it in 2002. The
previous owner ran it on mogas for over ten years.

The ONLY time I've EVER had engine trouble has been while operating with 100
LL -- which has far more lead in it than my engine was designed to run on.

I would use car gas if it cost MORE than avgas -- that's how much better my
plane runs on it.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


 




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