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#21
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USAF Phantoms on deck?
WaltBJ wrote:
As for the F4C/D/E landing on a carrier - they sure couldn't use the meatball - my outdated E dash-1 gives the limit sink rate of 720 fpm at 33000 pounds. 122 KIAS was the basic fence speed on a D before they axed the BLC. Using that as the minimum coming-aboard speed and 720 fpm gives a glide slope of 3.34 degrees. USN standard is, I believe, 4 1/2 degrees. 3-1/2 degrees. As for the BLC-less E model, the lowest practical 'on-speed' (19.2 units AOA) was 145 KIAS @ 32000# right off the graph in the dash-1. I never even sat in a Phantom, dammit, (missed a chance while stashed at Top Gun to catch as many rides as I wanted with the Reserve outfit there at Miramar, to this day I can't explain why I didn't grab that with both hands!), but I recall the F-4 guys talking about 145 or so being their approach speeds to the boat. All I can say is that from Vulture's Row them little birdies got bigger awful fast! USN practice is to carry a hell of a lot more tire pressure at the ship than they do ashore. Jeff |
#22
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USAF Phantoms on deck?
Dan wrote:
The one time I saw an F-4E use its tail hook for real, as opposed to testing the rope, I was surprised at how far the rope paid out. I think it was at Zaragosa. I don't know whether the hook would have been strong enough to stop it on a Navy boat, but it sure looked like the stopping distance was much longer than anything I have seen in the footage of Navy landings on boats. I'm not sure there would have been a reason to redesign that part of the airframe to a different standard than Navy F-4. Field arrestments are much longer than those aboard. Why go to the trouble and expense of designing an arresting engine which stops the aircraft in 400 feet when you have thousands available? Anyway, field engagements could occur at significantly higher weights and speeds, particularly for long field engagements and rejected takeoffs--it can be the same gear, some versions are bi-directional. Better to take up as much room as you can. Jeff |
#23
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USAF Phantoms on deck?
On Tue, 06 May 2008 22:26:22 -0800, Bob wrote:
Around 41 years ago at Ubon debriefing, F-4C, I think a cable engagement was one of the monthly blocks to fill in? Comes to mind because the crews talked about how rough it was sometimes. I take it the run out though would have been more on land than on a carrier? There was no periodic currency requirement for approach end barrier engagements. It was the recommended emergency procedure for many situtations in the F-4 and not particularly difficult compared to a carrier landing because you could spot the landing anywhere in the normal touchdown area prior to the cable which was usually around 2500 feet into the runway. Runout was about three to four times what a carrier arrestment runs. Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled" www.thunderchief.org www.thundertales.blogspot.com |
#24
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USAF Phantoms on deck?
"Bob" wrote...
Around 41 years ago at Ubon debriefing, F-4C, I think a cable engagement was one of the monthly blocks to fill in? Comes to mind because the crews talked about how rough it was sometimes. I take it the run out though would have been more on land than on a carrier? Indeed! The runout on a BAK-12 or similar is 1000-1500', while a carrier gear runout is on the order of 300'. |
#25
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USAF Phantoms on deck?
On May 7, 5:28 am, Ed Rasimus wrote:
SNIP: Runout was about three to four times what a carrier arrestment runs. Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled"www.thunderchief.orgwww.thundertales.blogsp ot.com SNIP: FWIW the 'stoppers' on the BAK12 were B52 wheel brakes with a sort of governer to control brake application so the run-out normally stayed within about 900-1200 feet. I saw an A3D abort at Danang (1971) and pull out all the tape - even bent its tail hook. The pilot aborted kind of late on takeoff when it became clear the bird wasn't going to get airborne in the remainder of the 11000 foot runway. Good thing the BAK12 stopped them or they would have been in the sewage lagoon for dinghy drill . . . Walt BJ |
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