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#11
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B-50(?) + X1
"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote: A contestant who spun a B-29 model in this setting would get a very poor score, indeed. Don't know why, they would have spun test the original! No ****? Never thought about that. Doubt if the SM judges would go for it, anyway. Especially that many turns and flat, too. -- Dan T182T at 4R4 |
#12
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B-50(?) + X1
"Dan Luke" wrote in
m: "Bertie the Bunyip" wrote: A contestant who spun a B-29 model in this setting would get a very poor score, indeed. Don't know why, they would have spun test the original! No ****? Never thought about that. Doubt if the SM judges would go for it, anyway. Especially that many turns and flat, too. Well, if one of the prototypes went flat! But yeah, they spun tested everything back then. It could either spin and recover or not be spinnable at all. I can't see why the B 29 woulnd't have spun and recovered fairly well. Nothing aerodynamically funky about it. All light aircraft had to be certified for spins or unspinnable up to the mid fifties. Some airplanes slipped throught the net, though and are placarded against today. The PA 23, for instance. Bertie |
#13
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B-50(?) + X1
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
romeomike wrote in : Bertie the Bunyip wrote: Don't know why, they would have spun test the original! Bertie For sure? Have all commercial airliners been spun tested? Well, it's not a commercial airliner, but back then they were. I've been in a DC 3 in a spin. I wasn't flying, just observing but during a training flight they lost it during a VMC demo and it did almost a turn. Recovery was pretty much normal. Bertie Yeah, for the record, I know a B-29 wasn't a commercial airliner, but you saying that they spun them made me wonder if other "large" multi- engine planes, like airliners are spin tested. I don't know for sure, but I would assume not. |
#14
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B-50(?) + X1
romeomike wrote in :
Bertie the Bunyip wrote: romeomike wrote in : Bertie the Bunyip wrote: Don't know why, they would have spun test the original! Bertie For sure? Have all commercial airliners been spun tested? Well, it's not a commercial airliner, but back then they were. I've been in a DC 3 in a spin. I wasn't flying, just observing but during a training flight they lost it during a VMC demo and it did almost a turn. Recovery was pretty much normal. Bertie Yeah, for the record, I know a B-29 wasn't a commercial airliner, but you saying that they spun them made me wonder if other "large" multi- engine planes, like airliners are spin tested. I don't know for sure, but I would assume not. Like DC6's and Connies and such? Oh yes, they definitely were. It was a requirement of the period. The old ATC system was the same regardless of the aircraft size and was in effect until the late forties. I believe the last aircraft to be certified under that system was the Fokker F-27. There has to be some sort of spin testing even now. I've done full stals in jets after deep maintenance, so they had to have had some exploration of spin entry tendencies, but the old airplanes were spun, regardless of size, if they could be spun. I think the only US certified airplanes exempt were the Ercoupe, the General Skyfarer and the Gwynn Aircar, all because they couldn't be spun. I know someone who works at Boeing,or rather did, and I've often wondered how deeply they went into it with the current crop of airliners. I'll ask him next time i talk to him. Bertie Bertie |
#15
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B-50(?) + X1
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Like DC6's and Connies and such? Oh yes, they definitely were. It was a requirement of the period. The old ATC system was the same regardless of the aircraft size and was in effect until the late forties. I believe the last aircraft to be certified under that system was the Fokker F-27. There has to be some sort of spin testing even now. I've done full stals in jets after deep maintenance, so they had to have had some exploration of spin entry tendencies, but the old airplanes were spun, regardless of size, if they could be spun. I think the only US certified airplanes exempt were the Ercoupe, the General Skyfarer and the Gwynn Aircar, all because they couldn't be spun. I know someone who works at Boeing,or rather did, and I've often wondered how deeply they went into it with the current crop of airliners. I'll ask him next time i talk to him. Bertie Interesting. Now I'm wondering if the spin testing involved fully developed spins or incipient spin entry. |
#16
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B-50(?) + X1
In article , romeomike
wrote: Yeah, for the record, I know a B-29 wasn't a commercial airliner, but you saying that they spun them made me wonder if other "large" multi- engine planes, like airliners are spin tested. I don't know for sure, but I would assume not. Do you count the Boeing Stratocruiser/C-97? Isn't it basically a B-29 with "fattened" fuselage. |
#17
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B-50(?) + X1
John Smith wrote:
Do you count the Boeing Stratocruiser/C-97? Yeah, I hadn't thought of that one. I think there were other variants also, such as one used to haul stuff for space vehicles. |
#18
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B-50(?) + X1
romeomike wrote in :
Bertie the Bunyip wrote: Like DC6's and Connies and such? Oh yes, they definitely were. It was a requirement of the period. The old ATC system was the same regardless of the aircraft size and was in effect until the late forties. I believe the last aircraft to be certified under that system was the Fokker F-27. There has to be some sort of spin testing even now. I've done full stals in jets after deep maintenance, so they had to have had some exploration of spin entry tendencies, but the old airplanes were spun, regardless of size, if they could be spun. I think the only US certified airplanes exempt were the Ercoupe, the General Skyfarer and the Gwynn Aircar, all because they couldn't be spun. I know someone who works at Boeing,or rather did, and I've often wondered how deeply they went into it with the current crop of airliners. I'll ask him next time i talk to him. Bertie Interesting. Now I'm wondering if the spin testing involved fully developed spins or incipient spin entry. I have the standard for the 1927-1949 Type Certificate lying around somewhere. Going off memory but it calls for 6 turns both directions with recovery achieved within one turn, or something similar. If the airplane was unspinnable then this wasn't required. Looking through my library for the requirements led me to another airplane eventually certified without spin certification, the Alexander Bullet. The airplane had huge difficulties with spins in it's earliest incarnation with four of them crashing in spin testing. It was eventually drastically reconfigured and was pronounced unspinnable and safe. An airplane was an airplane back then and the cirteria was the same for them all, large or small. On large multi engine airplanes, there was no single engine performance requirement, for instance. Engine out performance was more of a commercial selling point than a minimum requirement, even in airliners. Bertie |
#19
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B-50(?) + X1
romeomike wrote in :
John Smith wrote: Do you count the Boeing Stratocruiser/C-97? Yeah, I hadn't thought of that one. I think there were other variants also, such as one used to haul stuff for space vehicles. Somehow I think they didn't bother spin testing guppies! Bertie |
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