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Bush's guard record



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 29th 04, 12:48 AM
JDKAHN
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bush's guard record

I'd posted this in the "liar and fraud" thread but someone suggested nobody
would see it as that thread had kinda petered out. It's a good summary of
the reality of Bush's Guard record:

"Juan Jimenez" wrote in message
...
richard riley wrote in
:

:Why should we believe her over Killians own son?

And wife


Who also didn't spend every day with him at the office.

and commanding officer (Gen Hodges)


Who only confirmed that the document was not authentic, not that the
content was innacurate.

and the retired General that was supposed to be pressuring them (Staudt).


Who is refusing to comment on the matter.

There's not a single piece of evidence or testimony that Bush got
special treatment or didn't do what was required that hasn't been
completely disproved.


Wrong again. No evidence has been found that the Shrub showed up for duty
in his Alabama Guard unit in the time that has been disputed. None.



How a guy who put in 600 hours in F106s "part time" is supposed to be a
shirker is beyond me. Meanwhile, sKerry bugged out of Nam with 3 scratches
after only 4 months. It's one thing for an enlisted man or draftee to "game
the system" to bug out early, quite another for a commissioned Navy officer
to do so. Absolutely despicable. Which is why 80% of his unit mates
despise him. Plus meeting the VC later in Paris. Good lord...

Here's a great summary of Bush's guard service from the Mudville Gazette
weblog. I will take the word of Bush's contemporaries and commanders over
Killian's typist who BTW is a partisan democrat and Bush hater, therefore
whos credibility is zero anyway, any time. Juan you are a classic Micheal
Moore Moonbat Leftist. And that says everything.

John the Canadian Bush Fan


Read on...


------------------------------------------------------------

Note To Big Media on Bush AWOL: The Truth Is Out There

For a long time, I've wanted to prepare a detailed summary of the evidence
of the many National Guard veterans who have come forward to verify George
Bush's service. Most of the evidence is in the extended entry. This item is
cross-posted from I Love Jet Noise.

Another National Guard veteran who served with George Bush has stepped
forward to vouch for the President, leading me once again to ask: why are
the lamestream media unable (or perhaps unwilling?) to find these people?
Could it be bias?

Day after day the media repeat the same two or three lame accusations,
supported by the same two or three tired, old accusers. But voters only get
one side of the story: the side the Kerry campaign wants you to hear. What
ever happened to balanced reporting? Exculpatory evidence? There's plenty.
Let's look at the accusations -- and the evidence you haven't seen:

1. Bush was a slacker who used his Daddy's influence to get into the Guard
and avoid combat. He had no flying ability and shirked his duty:

Retired Colonel Ed Morrisey ought to know about Lt. George Bush: he swore
the young National Guardsman in and observed his service firsthand (via
Power Line):
"George W. went to pilot training, seated well, being selected to be a
fighter pilot, which is at the top of the line in the Air Force selection
process. Came back to train in the F-102 at Ellington. He stood alert like
anyone else," says Colonel Morrisey.
According to Morrisey, then-Lieutenant Bush more than fulfilled his guard
requirements.
Morrisey says in the six years the President served he never failed to meet
participation point requirements.
"Bush averaged 176 per year. In no year did he have less that 50," says
Morrisey. "He was rated by his commander, Col. Maurice Udell in the top 5 of
his pilots."
One of the criticisms leveled at the President is that he sought guard
service to keep him from serving in Vietnam.
Morrisey says, "not so."
"The Air Force, in their ultimate wisdom, assembled a group of 102's and
took them to Southeast Asia. Bush volunteered to go. But he needed to have
500 [flight] hours, but he only had just over 300 hours so he wasn't
eligible to go," Morrisey recalls.
Despite that, Lieutenant Bush stayed busy.
"He flew in active air defense missions, training missions. Day, night,
regardless of inclement weather," Morrisey says.
Colonel Morrisey assured us that to the best of his knowledge Lieutenant
Bush was treated like any other officer in the Texas Air National Guard.

Perhaps the media declined to interview Morrisey because he's just another
bitter, partisan hack. Like Bill Burkett, for instance...it's so refreshing
to see the same standard applied even-handedly, isn't it?
Morrisey says he considers himself to be more of a Libertarian than
Republican or Democrat. Nonetheless, Morrisey says he is voting for George
Bush come election day.

And then there's Bush's roommate, Major Dean A. Roome. Hardly a household
word like Burkett (now discredited) or Turnipseed (an Alzheimer's sufferer
misquoted by the Boston Globe), mainstays of the Bush AWOL story. Surely it
didn't take the investigative talents of Woodward and Bernstein to unearth
Major Roome's story:
"He was one of my favorite people to ride formation with, because he was
smooth. He was a very competent pilot," Roome said. "You sort of bet your
life on each other in some of those formation missions, and to me it was
always a pleasure to fly with George. He was good."
Bush logged more than 625 hours in the cockpit and ranked in the top 10
percent of his squadron, according to his performance evaluations.
"They're saying we're all a bunch of privileged draft dodgers, and that we
got in there to get out of Vietnam," Roome said. "But that's not the case.
In our unit, we had an average of two people overseas in the Vietnam theater
continuously from 1968 to 1970." He says he and other Guard pilots did
combat support missions as part of a program codenamed "Palace Alert
Southeast Asia."
He recalls Bush and another lieutenant volunteering for the program. "When I
left for it, I told him he ought to look into it, and George was interested
in it, because he and (ret. Lt. Col. Fred) Bradley went and saw the colonel
and inquired about it," Roome said. But they were too late. The program was
winding down and not accepting any more volunteers, and Bush didn't have
enough flight time to qualify anyway. By July 1970, the overseas F-102
program had been canceled altogether, Roome says.

The accounts of Morrisey and Roome are corroborated by a third officer,
Colonel William Campenelli:
A pilot program using ANG volunteer pilots in F-102s (called Palace Alert)
was scrapped quickly after the airplane proved to be unsuitable to the war
effort. Ironically, Lt. Bush did inquire about this program but was advised
by an ANG supervisor (Maj. Maurice Udell, retired) that he did not have the
desired experience (500 hours) at the time and that the program was winding
down and not accepting more volunteers.
"Lieutenant Bush is an outstanding young pilot and officer and is a credit
to his unit," Lt. Col. Bobby Hodges wrote on May 27, 1971. "This officer is
rated in the upper 10 percent of his contemporaries." Another, written by
Maj. William Harris on May 26, 1972, was just as glowing: "Lieutenant Bush
is an exceptional fighter interceptor pilot and officer."

But Bush was obviously just a snotty rich kid - of course his officer buds
would stick up for him. I'll bet he was a real jerk around enlisted men...
always throwing his weight around. Former Staff Sergeant Dan Liles:
....wonders why previous Bush campaigns didn't trumpet his exemplary flying
record. "I was surprised when he ran for president that his flying record
didn't come out," he said, "because it was pretty good." Liles, who also
doubts "any rules were bent" for Bush, says the young Ivy League officer
never acted like he was better than anyone else in the squadron. "He was one
of the few officers out there who would let you walk along beside him. Most
officers, you'd have to walk five feet behind them out on the flight line,"
Liles said. "But Bush wasn't like that. He was probably the nicest guy out
there."

2. Bush went AWOL during the last year of his Guard service:

Several bloggers have analyzed his drill records here, here, and here and
have found nothing remarkable. The media, astonishingly ignorant about even
active duty military matters, are really lost at sea when it comes to
understanding Reserve drill requirements. But surely investigative
journalists could scare up a Reservist or two with admin experience to help
them interpret these records?

And then there are the eyewitnesses who remember seeing Lt. Bush:

Captain Ed reports that Air Force Sgt. James Copeland, saw George W. Bush
report for drill at Dannelly Air National Guard Base in Montgomery, AL
during the period CBS and Democrats claim he was AWOL:
Copeland, who lives in Hartselle, retired from the Air Force on Jan. 31,
1980. He was the disbursement accounting supervisor, a full-time position,
for Dannelly Air National Guard Base in Montgomery from Oct. 28, 1971, to
Oct. 27, 1975. His office was less than 100 yards from the hangar where Bush
performed drills.
Rumors say Bush went AWOL while assisting Winton "Red" Blount in an
unsuccessful campaign for U.S. Senate focus on 1972 and 1973.

Moreover, Copeland disputes the DNC's smear that Bush levereged his
privileged background:
"Maybe the Bush family was well known in Texas, but we didn't know who he
was here. He was just another guy in a flight jacket," Copeland said Sunday.

Copeland's account is important, because it corroborates the account of
another eyewitness, Lt. Col. John Calhoun:
Copeland, 65, remembers meeting Bush on two occasions. He does not remember
the precise dates. On one occasion, Copeland said, Bush and Lt. Col. John
"Bill" Calhoun came to Copeland's office with a question about Bush's pay.
Copeland is not sure, but he believes the question had to do with where to
mail Bush's checks.
Copeland stressed that Calhoun's account of Bush's service in Montgomery
would be accurate because Calhoun was in a position to work with Bush during
every drill. Calhoun told The Associated Press last week that he saw Bush
every drill time, which was one weekend each month.
Not only was Calhoun in a position to know of Bush's service, Copeland said,
but Calhoun "was an ethical and honest officer."

Via Bill Hobbs

Calhoun came forward back in February to say he remembered seeing Bush
report for drill:
"The truth is George Bush came to Alabama. He asked for weekend drills with
us. He was assigned to me," said Calhoun, who was in Florida on Friday for
this weekend's Daytona 500 festivities.
"He showed up. He sat in my office. He signed in," Calhoun said. "He was
very determined to be there. He was in uniform and he did what he was
supposed to do." Calhoun recalled he thought the young lieutenant was
"fairly low key" though Bush told him he had been "working day and night" on
Blount's Senate campaign. Calhoun asked Bush if he had political ambition.
"He said, 'I don't know. Maybe.' "
Calhoun said he sometimes grabbed a sandwich with Bush in the snack bar.
Other times, the young pilot would sit on a couch and read flight magazines
and training manuals.

A third eyewitness also places the young Bush in the area. Emily Wills
Curtis remembers seeing him, too - several times:
"He called to tell me he was coming back to finish up his National Guard
duty," said Mrs. Curtis, who now lives in New Orleans. "I can say
categorically he was there, and that's why he came back."
She said that he rented an apartment for a two-week stay and that she met
him for dinner several times.
"I didn't see him go to work. I didn't see him come home from work," she
said. "He told me that was why he was in Montgomery. There is no other
reason why he would come back to Montgomery."

Kevin Drum has a sighting too:
Joe LeFevers, a member of the 187th in 1972, said he remembers seeing Bush
in unit offices and being told that Bush was in Montgomery to work on
Blount's campaign.
"I was going in the orderly room over there one day, and they said, 'This is
Lt. Bush,'" LeFevers said Tuesday. "They pointed him out to me ... the
reason I remember it is because I associate him with Red Blount."


Is anyone else starting to see a pattern here? In each case, several
witnesses have come forth independently, giving the same story and
corroborating the same version of events. Personally I question the timing.

Fortunately, the media are not as gullible as the pajamahadeen: that's why
they're the pros. They continue to report the misquotation of William
Turnipseed, a man with Alzheimer's disease, who says he wasn't even on the
base, and therefore could not be sure whether or not George Bush attended
drill, as "proof" he was AWOL. And they continue to run the word of a
Democratic partisan with a history of mental problems, a man who once swore
under oath he did not use improper influence to help Bush get into the
Guard, a man who has been implicated in the handling of forged documents, as
a credible source. That's why we need to keep news coverage out of the hands
of the hoi-polloi, folks.

3. Bush disobeyed orders to report for drill and to take a flight physical:
But in an interview, Turnipseed states that Robinson's reporting of their
conversation was either distorted or based upon his misunderstanding of how
the military functioned at the time of Bush's service. For Bush to be "AWOL"
or "away without leave," he would have had to have been assigned to a unit
and under its command.
Turnipseed states Bush was never ordered to report to the Alabama Air
National Guard. He points out that Bush never transferred from the Texas Air
National Guard to the Alabama Air National Guard. He remained in the Texas
Guard during his stay in Alabama. This was confirmed by the Texas Guard. And
Turnipseed added that Bush was never under his command or any other officer
in the Alabama Guard.
Turnipseed added that Bush was informed of the drill schedule of the Alabama
Guard as a courtesy so he could get credit for drills while in Alabama for
his service record in the Texas Guard. There was no compulsory
attendance.This was also confirmed by the Texas Guard.

Lt. Col. Campenelli addresses the charge that Bush defied an "order" to take
a flight physical:
Another frequent charge is that, as a member of the Texas ANG, Lt. Bush
twice ignored or disobeyed lawful orders, first by refusing to report for a
required physical in the year when drug testing first became part of the
exam, and second by failing to report for duty at the disciplinary unit in
Colorado to which he had been ordered. Well, here are the facts:
First, there is no instance of Lt. Bush disobeying lawful orders in
reporting for a physical, as none would be given. Pilots are scheduled for
their annual flight physicals in their birth month during that month's
weekend drill assembly - the only time the clinic is open. In the Reserves,
it is not uncommon to miss this deadline by a month or so for a variety of
reasons: The clinic is closed that month for special training; the
individual is out of town on civilian business; etc.
If so, the pilot is grounded temporarily until he completes the physical.
Also, the formal drug testing program was not instituted by the Air Force
until the 1980s and is done randomly by lot, not as a special part of a
flight physical, when one easily could abstain from drug use because of its
date certain. Blood work is done, but to ensure a healthy pilot, not
confront a drug user.
Second, there was no such thing as a "disciplinary unit in Colorado" to
which Lt. Bush had been ordered. The Air Reserve Personnel Center in Denver
is a repository of the paperwork for those no longer assigned to a specific
unit, such as retirees and transferees. Mine is there now, so I guess I'm
"being disciplined." These "disciplinary units" just don't exist. Any
discipline, if required, is handled within the local squadron, group or
wing, administratively or judicially. Had there been such an infraction or
court-martial action, there would be a record and a reflection in Lt. Bush's
performance review and personnel folder. None exists, as was confirmed in
The Washington Post in 2000.

Baldilocks finds Campenelli's view of events is supported by her own Reserve
experience:
In my reserve incarnation, I was an Aeromedical Services Technician
(non-flying), whose primary peacetime purpose was to perform the
paraprofessional portion of the physical exam to flying personnel. That
entails, hearing exams, vision exams, vitals, blood work, immunizations,
other stuff, and, most pertinent to this subject, scheduling the exams.
So I know the colonel's part about the physicals to be true. We had pilots
(and other flight crew) miss physicals all the time, due to a whole range of
reasons (like not being on flying status for whatever reason, as was the
case with Lt. Bush). The only thing that will happen to them is that they
will be grounded, as Col. Campenni says. Not a big deal for a pilot with no
aircraft to fly in.
Also, I remember when the random drug test was instituted. At the onset of
the new drug-testing policy, they tested everyone in the Air Force. That was
the only time in which the test wasn't random. The implementation of the new
policy occurred nine months after I joined the active duty Air Force, in
1981.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

You got nothing. And the mainstream media should be ashamed for its
unprofessional and unethical failure to investigate this matter honestly and
fairly. Its one-sided coverage of this story amounts to little more than a
mindless parroting of Terry McAuliffe's latest talking points.

Media lackwits like Tina Brown have been condescending and needlessly
insulting to bloggers... oh, excuse me...Web charlatans:

You'd think "Buckhead," who first spotted the flaws in the documents, is the
cyberworld's Woodward and Bernstein. Now the conventional wisdom is that the
media will be kept honest and decent by an army of incorruptible amateur
gumshoes. In fact, cyberspace is populated by a coalition of political
obsessives and pundits on speed who get it wrong as much as they get it
right. It's just that they type so much they are bound to nail a story from
time to time.

(In other words, we're more fun than a barrel of monkeys banging on
typewriters. Thanks for the warm fuzzy, Tina.)

Seems to this web charletan that if a ragtag group of amateurs armed with
modems and laptops can find the news in smalltown newspapers and radio
stations, it's not too much to expect that professional journalists, with
the vast resources of the corporate media behind them, might be expected do
us one better. The truth is out there

99% of the game is showing up, guys.


Ads
  #2  
Old September 29th 04, 01:21 AM
Shiver Me Timbers
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

JDKAHN wrote:

I'd posted this in the "liar and fraud" thread but someone suggested nobody
would see it as that thread had kinda petered out. It's a good summary of
the reality of Bush's Guard record:


One Canadian to another...... WHAT THE **** ARE YOU DOING.

As a Canadian..... Really - Who cares what a bunch of Americans think
about George Bush, John Kerry, or any other political dip**** involved
in the upcoming election.

Johnny Canuck just why does it matter to you what's going on to the
point where you feel an overwhelming need to repost a 350 line piece of
verbal diarehhea for the second time.

During our last election did you come to this same newsgroup and
chastise Paul Martin for the special breaks his steamship company has
received over the years..... perhaps you enlightened us about the
antics of Stephen Harper, et al....... how about Jack Layton.

Yah I didn't think so either.

Personally every American on the block can call Bush, Kerry or any
other candidate as dumb as a stump for all I care, the fact remains
that you don't get to run for the Presidency or get elected for being
dumb or stupid. The winner might be lucky and many millions of
Americans might be unhappy at the results, but the winner is not stupid.

The only stupid people in this group are those whiny Americans who have
spent the past four years constantly disrupting an Aviation newsgroup
complaining about the peoples choice..... good bad or indifferent.

Wait till the election is over when the next crop of complainers shows
up...... They will start just about the morning of November 3rd.

As for you my fellow Canadian you should spend your energy worrying
about what's wrong on our side of the border since neither you nor I
can do a damn thing about what's wrong on the other side.

So take your whining, and 350 line reposts of American comments and
shove them your ass like a good little Canuck and shut the **** up.
  #3  
Old September 29th 04, 01:23 AM
geo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"JDKAHN" wrote in message
...
I'd posted this in the "liar and fraud" thread but someone suggested

nobody
would see it as that thread had kinda petered out. It's a good summary of
the reality of Bush's Guard record:


How a guy who put in 600 hours in F106s "part time" is supposed to be a
shirker is beyond me. Meanwhile, sKerry bugged out of Nam with 3

scratches
after only 4 months. It's one thing for an enlisted man or draftee to

"game
the system" to bug out early, quite another for a commissioned Navy

officer
to do so. Absolutely despicable. Which is why 80% of his unit mates
despise him. Plus meeting the VC later in Paris. Good lord...

Here's a great summary of Bush's guard service from the Mudville Gazette
weblog. I will take the word of Bush's contemporaries and commanders over
Killian's typist who BTW is a partisan democrat and Bush hater, therefore
whos credibility is zero anyway, any time. Juan you are a classic Micheal
Moore Moonbat Leftist. And that says everything.


And you're a classic KKKristian KKKonservative right wing conflict addict.
But if you must be OT suit yourself.

U.S. democracy: ugly but it works
The proof is in what happens when Americans figure out they've been
conned -- just like the Vietnam War

Stephen Hume
Vancouver Sun


April 1, 2004

Democracy in the United States can be ugly. It can be brutal. It can
be downright creepy when the zealots on the far left and the far right
start howling for political blood. Or playing the race card. Or
wrapping themselves in the Stars and Stripes. Or invoking the
blessings of the Almighty as though God were some crooked Nixonesque
politician.

Yet despite the warts and the sleaze and the excess, one has to
acknowledge that democracy practised American-style works.

The best proof is what happens when the American people start to
figure out they've been had by their own leaders. And boy, did the
patriots get conned by President George W. Bush and the
neo-conservative Pied Pipers who merrily led them into Iraq,
squandering vast amounts of the country's hard-won treasure in the
process.

Worse, they got fleeced. The wealthy few got massive tax cuts, the
corporate cronies got rich contracts to rebuild what shock and awe had
demolished, most of the people just got saddled with a bill so huge
that it may take generations to repay.

One Associated Press report earlier this year estimated that
accumulated U.S. deficits over the next decade might reach $2.4
trillion -- yes, that's trillion -- an amount larger than the entire
2004 U.S. budget.

No wonder the International Monetary Fund has been warning that
excessive deficits in the U.S. caused by recession, tax cuts and war
spending could damage the global economy.

All this for a war based on a pretext which was spun from deceptions
and duplicities that were themselves concocted in the service of an
agenda thick with ideology but thin on the forethought.

Well, logic says it's either that, or one accepts that the folks who
marched into Iraq really believed they were there to remove an arsenal
of weapons that was only 45 minutes from wreaking hideous mass
destruction on London. Which, given the extensive advice to the
contrary, would make the invaders and their intelligence agencies the
stupidest collection of incompetents since Millard Filmore failed in
his attempt to get re-elected as president running for the American
Know Nothing Party.

I note with some amusement that even true blue icons like Walter
Cronkite are now reported to be comparing the American misadventure in
Iraq to the nightmarish experience of Vietnam.

I had an eerie sense of deja vu when I came over the brief newspaper
item reporting an interview the avuncular conscience of American
journalism granted a bunch of college kids in a class being taught by
an old CBS News colleague. I'm old enough to remember the stunned
reaction when he reported on the evening news that the war in Vietnam
looked unwinnable.

"I see a very close parallel [with Vietnam]," Cronkite was quoted as
saying this time. "I don't find any real substance in the argument
that there's no parallel, which is what the administration would
like."

These days, if I do a quick survey of the news columns it seems that
everybody is making the comparison. Most tellingly, those -- like
Cronkite -- who were in Vietnam are finding troubling parallels with
Iraq.

Then there's Brent Scowcroft, the former U.S. national security
adviser who served the first Bush administration. He's quoted in the
Sydney Morning Herald as having warned in an interview with the
Portuguese newspaper Expresso that the long-term consequences of the
American involvement in Iraq could be even worse than Vietnam.

"Our exit from that country did not have grave consequences, while if
we wanted to get out of Iraq today, the consequences would be very
deep," Scowcroft said.

The Herald says he's the expert who reviewed the intelligence service
for the current U.S. administration and was a critic of the invasion
of Iraq because it relieved the pressure on the really dangerous
terrorists in al-Qaida and other extremist groups.

After the bombings in Bali, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Uzbekistan, Moscow,
Israel, the Philippines, the massacre in Madrid and the anti-terrorist
operation that just seized half a tonne of explosive in the middle of
London, it's difficult to argue that Scowcroft didn't have a good
point about just where the imminent threat to civil society lay.

All of which helps explain why there's such a frenzy of vilification
surrounding recent statements to the same effect by anti-terror expert
Richard Clarke, one of the most experienced and senior veterans of
both Democratic and Republican administrations.

Clarke has said bluntly that the Bush administration was so fixated on
its neo-con agenda for Iraq that it pointedly ignored his and other
warnings about the genuine threat posed by al-Qaida -- a failure of
comprehension that resulted in the World Trade Center massacre.

Yet the intensity of the criticism now directed at Clarke should
remind us of one thing that's more important than the debate. American
democracy works. And as cruel as the process can be, it's working
right now.

The nastiness of the discussion reflects less on Clarke than on the
fact that those who persuaded the public that a war in Iraq was
essential to protect the U.S. from terrorists also understand the
political consequences if the American people come to believe they've
been fed a self-serving lie.



The Vancouver Sun 2004


Once the global beacon of freedom, America has become a belligerent,
warmongering, incipient police state.




  #4  
Old September 29th 04, 01:49 AM
Bob
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Shiver Me Timbers" wrote in message
...
JDKAHN wrote:

I'd posted this in the "liar and fraud" thread but someone suggested

nobody
would see it as that thread had kinda petered out. It's a good summary

of
the reality of Bush's Guard record:


One Canadian to another...... WHAT THE **** ARE YOU DOING.

As a Canadian..... Really - Who cares what a bunch of Americans think
about George Bush, John Kerry, or any other political dip**** involved
in the upcoming election.

Johnny Canuck just why does it matter to you what's going on to the
point where you feel an overwhelming need to repost a 350 line piece of
verbal diarehhea for the second time.

During our last election did you come to this same newsgroup and
chastise Paul Martin for the special breaks his steamship company has
received over the years..... perhaps you enlightened us about the
antics of Stephen Harper, et al....... how about Jack Layton.

Yah I didn't think so either.

Personally every American on the block can call Bush, Kerry or any
other candidate as dumb as a stump for all I care, the fact remains
that you don't get to run for the Presidency or get elected for being
dumb or stupid. The winner might be lucky and many millions of
Americans might be unhappy at the results, but the winner is not stupid.

The only stupid people in this group are those whiny Americans who have
spent the past four years constantly disrupting an Aviation newsgroup
complaining about the peoples choice..... good bad or indifferent.

Wait till the election is over when the next crop of complainers shows
up...... They will start just about the morning of November 3rd.

As for you my fellow Canadian you should spend your energy worrying
about what's wrong on our side of the border since neither you nor I
can do a damn thing about what's wrong on the other side.

So take your whining, and 350 line reposts of American comments and
shove them your ass like a good little Canuck and shut the **** up.


Since it irritated you so much the first time and since you are such a whiny
*******...... here..... this is just for you....

How a guy who put in 600 hours in F106s "part time" is supposed to be a
shirker is beyond me. Meanwhile, sKerry bugged out of Nam with 3 scratches
after only 4 months. It's one thing for an enlisted man or draftee to "game
the system" to bug out early, quite another for a commissioned Navy officer
to do so. Absolutely despicable. Which is why 80% of his unit mates
despise him. Plus meeting the VC later in Paris. Good lord...

Here's a great summary of Bush's guard service from the Mudville Gazette
weblog. I will take the word of Bush's contemporaries and commanders over
Killian's typist who BTW is a partisan democrat and Bush hater, therefore
whos credibility is zero anyway, any time. Juan you are a classic Micheal
Moore Moonbat Leftist. And that says everything.

John the Canadian Bush Fan


Read on...


------------------------------------------------------------

Note To Big Media on Bush AWOL: The Truth Is Out There

For a long time, I've wanted to prepare a detailed summary of the evidence
of the many National Guard veterans who have come forward to verify George
Bush's service. Most of the evidence is in the extended entry. This item is
cross-posted from I Love Jet Noise.

Another National Guard veteran who served with George Bush has stepped
forward to vouch for the President, leading me once again to ask: why are
the lamestream media unable (or perhaps unwilling?) to find these people?
Could it be bias?

Day after day the media repeat the same two or three lame accusations,
supported by the same two or three tired, old accusers. But voters only get
one side of the story: the side the Kerry campaign wants you to hear. What
ever happened to balanced reporting? Exculpatory evidence? There's plenty.
Let's look at the accusations -- and the evidence you haven't seen:

1. Bush was a slacker who used his Daddy's influence to get into the Guard
and avoid combat. He had no flying ability and shirked his duty:

Retired Colonel Ed Morrisey ought to know about Lt. George Bush: he swore
the young National Guardsman in and observed his service firsthand (via
Power Line):
"George W. went to pilot training, seated well, being selected to be a
fighter pilot, which is at the top of the line in the Air Force selection
process. Came back to train in the F-102 at Ellington. He stood alert like
anyone else," says Colonel Morrisey.
According to Morrisey, then-Lieutenant Bush more than fulfilled his guard
requirements.
Morrisey says in the six years the President served he never failed to meet
participation point requirements.
"Bush averaged 176 per year. In no year did he have less that 50," says
Morrisey. "He was rated by his commander, Col. Maurice Udell in the top 5 of
his pilots."
One of the criticisms leveled at the President is that he sought guard
service to keep him from serving in Vietnam.
Morrisey says, "not so."
"The Air Force, in their ultimate wisdom, assembled a group of 102's and
took them to Southeast Asia. Bush volunteered to go. But he needed to have
500 [flight] hours, but he only had just over 300 hours so he wasn't
eligible to go," Morrisey recalls.
Despite that, Lieutenant Bush stayed busy.
"He flew in active air defense missions, training missions. Day, night,
regardless of inclement weather," Morrisey says.
Colonel Morrisey assured us that to the best of his knowledge Lieutenant
Bush was treated like any other officer in the Texas Air National Guard.

Perhaps the media declined to interview Morrisey because he's just another
bitter, partisan hack. Like Bill Burkett, for instance...it's so refreshing
to see the same standard applied even-handedly, isn't it?
Morrisey says he considers himself to be more of a Libertarian than
Republican or Democrat. Nonetheless, Morrisey says he is voting for George
Bush come election day.

And then there's Bush's roommate, Major Dean A. Roome. Hardly a household
word like Burkett (now discredited) or Turnipseed (an Alzheimer's sufferer
misquoted by the Boston Globe), mainstays of the Bush AWOL story. Surely it
didn't take the investigative talents of Woodward and Bernstein to unearth
Major Roome's story:
"He was one of my favorite people to ride formation with, because he was
smooth. He was a very competent pilot," Roome said. "You sort of bet your
life on each other in some of those formation missions, and to me it was
always a pleasure to fly with George. He was good."
Bush logged more than 625 hours in the cockpit and ranked in the top 10
percent of his squadron, according to his performance evaluations.
"They're saying we're all a bunch of privileged draft dodgers, and that we
got in there to get out of Vietnam," Roome said. "But that's not the case.
In our unit, we had an average of two people overseas in the Vietnam theater
continuously from 1968 to 1970." He says he and other Guard pilots did
combat support missions as part of a program codenamed "Palace Alert
Southeast Asia."
He recalls Bush and another lieutenant volunteering for the program. "When I
left for it, I told him he ought to look into it, and George was interested
in it, because he and (ret. Lt. Col. Fred) Bradley went and saw the colonel
and inquired about it," Roome said. But they were too late. The program was
winding down and not accepting any more volunteers, and Bush didn't have
enough flight time to qualify anyway. By July 1970, the overseas F-102
program had been canceled altogether, Roome says.

The accounts of Morrisey and Roome are corroborated by a third officer,
Colonel William Campenelli:
A pilot program using ANG volunteer pilots in F-102s (called Palace Alert)
was scrapped quickly after the airplane proved to be unsuitable to the war
effort. Ironically, Lt. Bush did inquire about this program but was advised
by an ANG supervisor (Maj. Maurice Udell, retired) that he did not have the
desired experience (500 hours) at the time and that the program was winding
down and not accepting more volunteers.
"Lieutenant Bush is an outstanding young pilot and officer and is a credit
to his unit," Lt. Col. Bobby Hodges wrote on May 27, 1971. "This officer is
rated in the upper 10 percent of his contemporaries." Another, written by
Maj. William Harris on May 26, 1972, was just as glowing: "Lieutenant Bush
is an exceptional fighter interceptor pilot and officer."

But Bush was obviously just a snotty rich kid - of course his officer buds
would stick up for him. I'll bet he was a real jerk around enlisted men...
always throwing his weight around. Former Staff Sergeant Dan Liles:
....wonders why previous Bush campaigns didn't trumpet his exemplary flying
record. "I was surprised when he ran for president that his flying record
didn't come out," he said, "because it was pretty good." Liles, who also
doubts "any rules were bent" for Bush, says the young Ivy League officer
never acted like he was better than anyone else in the squadron. "He was one
of the few officers out there who would let you walk along beside him. Most
officers, you'd have to walk five feet behind them out on the flight line,"
Liles said. "But Bush wasn't like that. He was probably the nicest guy out
there."

2. Bush went AWOL during the last year of his Guard service:

Several bloggers have analyzed his drill records here, here, and here and
have found nothing remarkable. The media, astonishingly ignorant about even
active duty military matters, are really lost at sea when it comes to
understanding Reserve drill requirements. But surely investigative
journalists could scare up a Reservist or two with admin experience to help
them interpret these records?

And then there are the eyewitnesses who remember seeing Lt. Bush:

Captain Ed reports that Air Force Sgt. James Copeland, saw George W. Bush
report for drill at Dannelly Air National Guard Base in Montgomery, AL
during the period CBS and Democrats claim he was AWOL:
Copeland, who lives in Hartselle, retired from the Air Force on Jan. 31,
1980. He was the disbursement accounting supervisor, a full-time position,
for Dannelly Air National Guard Base in Montgomery from Oct. 28, 1971, to
Oct. 27, 1975. His office was less than 100 yards from the hangar where Bush
performed drills.
Rumors say Bush went AWOL while assisting Winton "Red" Blount in an
unsuccessful campaign for U.S. Senate focus on 1972 and 1973.

Moreover, Copeland disputes the DNC's smear that Bush levereged his
privileged background:
"Maybe the Bush family was well known in Texas, but we didn't know who he
was here. He was just another guy in a flight jacket," Copeland said Sunday.

Copeland's account is important, because it corroborates the account of
another eyewitness, Lt. Col. John Calhoun:
Copeland, 65, remembers meeting Bush on two occasions. He does not remember
the precise dates. On one occasion, Copeland said, Bush and Lt. Col. John
"Bill" Calhoun came to Copeland's office with a question about Bush's pay.
Copeland is not sure, but he believes the question had to do with where to
mail Bush's checks.
Copeland stressed that Calhoun's account of Bush's service in Montgomery
would be accurate because Calhoun was in a position to work with Bush during
every drill. Calhoun told The Associated Press last week that he saw Bush
every drill time, which was one weekend each month.
Not only was Calhoun in a position to know of Bush's service, Copeland said,
but Calhoun "was an ethical and honest officer."

Via Bill Hobbs

Calhoun came forward back in February to say he remembered seeing Bush
report for drill:
"The truth is George Bush came to Alabama. He asked for weekend drills with
us. He was assigned to me," said Calhoun, who was in Florida on Friday for
this weekend's Daytona 500 festivities.
"He showed up. He sat in my office. He signed in," Calhoun said. "He was
very determined to be there. He was in uniform and he did what he was
supposed to do." Calhoun recalled he thought the young lieutenant was
"fairly low key" though Bush told him he had been "working day and night" on
Blount's Senate campaign. Calhoun asked Bush if he had political ambition.
"He said, 'I don't know. Maybe.' "
Calhoun said he sometimes grabbed a sandwich with Bush in the snack bar.
Other times, the young pilot would sit on a couch and read flight magazines
and training manuals.

A third eyewitness also places the young Bush in the area. Emily Wills
Curtis remembers seeing him, too - several times:
"He called to tell me he was coming back to finish up his National Guard
duty," said Mrs. Curtis, who now lives in New Orleans. "I can say
categorically he was there, and that's why he came back."
She said that he rented an apartment for a two-week stay and that she met
him for dinner several times.
"I didn't see him go to work. I didn't see him come home from work," she
said. "He told me that was why he was in Montgomery. There is no other
reason why he would come back to Montgomery."

Kevin Drum has a sighting too:
Joe LeFevers, a member of the 187th in 1972, said he remembers seeing Bush
in unit offices and being told that Bush was in Montgomery to work on
Blount's campaign.
"I was going in the orderly room over there one day, and they said, 'This is
Lt. Bush,'" LeFevers said Tuesday. "They pointed him out to me ... the
reason I remember it is because I associate him with Red Blount."


Is anyone else starting to see a pattern here? In each case, several
witnesses have come forth independently, giving the same story and
corroborating the same version of events. Personally I question the timing.

Fortunately, the media are not as gullible as the pajamahadeen: that's why
they're the pros. They continue to report the misquotation of William
Turnipseed, a man with Alzheimer's disease, who says he wasn't even on the
base, and therefore could not be sure whether or not George Bush attended
drill, as "proof" he was AWOL. And they continue to run the word of a
Democratic partisan with a history of mental problems, a man who once swore
under oath he did not use improper influence to help Bush get into the
Guard, a man who has been implicated in the handling of forged documents, as
a credible source. That's why we need to keep news coverage out of the hands
of the hoi-polloi, folks.

3. Bush disobeyed orders to report for drill and to take a flight physical:
But in an interview, Turnipseed states that Robinson's reporting of their
conversation was either distorted or based upon his misunderstanding of how
the military functioned at the time of Bush's service. For Bush to be "AWOL"
or "away without leave," he would have had to have been assigned to a unit
and under its command.
Turnipseed states Bush was never ordered to report to the Alabama Air
National Guard. He points out that Bush never transferred from the Texas Air
National Guard to the Alabama Air National Guard. He remained in the Texas
Guard during his stay in Alabama. This was confirmed by the Texas Guard. And
Turnipseed added that Bush was never under his command or any other officer
in the Alabama Guard.
Turnipseed added that Bush was informed of the drill schedule of the Alabama
Guard as a courtesy so he could get credit for drills while in Alabama for
his service record in the Texas Guard. There was no compulsory
attendance.This was also confirmed by the Texas Guard.

Lt. Col. Campenelli addresses the charge that Bush defied an "order" to take
a flight physical:
Another frequent charge is that, as a member of the Texas ANG, Lt. Bush
twice ignored or disobeyed lawful orders, first by refusing to report for a
required physical in the year when drug testing first became part of the
exam, and second by failing to report for duty at the disciplinary unit in
Colorado to which he had been ordered. Well, here are the facts:
First, there is no instance of Lt. Bush disobeying lawful orders in
reporting for a physical, as none would be given. Pilots are scheduled for
their annual flight physicals in their birth month during that month's
weekend drill assembly - the only time the clinic is open. In the Reserves,
it is not uncommon to miss this deadline by a month or so for a variety of
reasons: The clinic is closed that month for special training; the
individual is out of town on civilian business; etc.
If so, the pilot is grounded temporarily until he completes the physical.
Also, the formal drug testing program was not instituted by the Air Force
until the 1980s and is done randomly by lot, not as a special part of a
flight physical, when one easily could abstain from drug use because of its
date certain. Blood work is done, but to ensure a healthy pilot, not
confront a drug user.
Second, there was no such thing as a "disciplinary unit in Colorado" to
which Lt. Bush had been ordered. The Air Reserve Personnel Center in Denver
is a repository of the paperwork for those no longer assigned to a specific
unit, such as retirees and transferees. Mine is there now, so I guess I'm
"being disciplined." These "disciplinary units" just don't exist. Any
discipline, if required, is handled within the local squadron, group or
wing, administratively or judicially. Had there been such an infraction or
court-martial action, there would be a record and a reflection in Lt. Bush's
performance review and personnel folder. None exists, as was confirmed in
The Washington Post in 2000.

Baldilocks finds Campenelli's view of events is supported by her own Reserve
experience:
In my reserve incarnation, I was an Aeromedical Services Technician
(non-flying), whose primary peacetime purpose was to perform the
paraprofessional portion of the physical exam to flying personnel. That
entails, hearing exams, vision exams, vitals, blood work, immunizations,
other stuff, and, most pertinent to this subject, scheduling the exams.
So I know the colonel's part about the physicals to be true. We had pilots
(and other flight crew) miss physicals all the time, due to a whole range of
reasons (like not being on flying status for whatever reason, as was the
case with Lt. Bush). The only thing that will happen to them is that they
will be grounded, as Col. Campenni says. Not a big deal for a pilot with no
aircraft to fly in.
Also, I remember when the random drug test was instituted. At the onset of
the new drug-testing policy, they tested everyone in the Air Force. That was
the only time in which the test wasn't random. The implementation of the new
policy occurred nine months after I joined the active duty Air Force, in
1981.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

You got nothing. And the mainstream media should be ashamed for its
unprofessional and unethical failure to investigate this matter honestly and
fairly. Its one-sided coverage of this story amounts to little more than a
mindless parroting of Terry McAuliffe's latest talking points.

Media lackwits like Tina Brown have been condescending and needlessly
insulting to bloggers... oh, excuse me...Web charlatans:

You'd think "Buckhead," who first spotted the flaws in the documents, is the
cyberworld's Woodward and Bernstein. Now the conventional wisdom is that the
media will be kept honest and decent by an army of incorruptible amateur
gumshoes. In fact, cyberspace is populated by a coalition of political
obsessives and pundits on speed who get it wrong as much as they get it
right. It's just that they type so much they are bound to nail a story from
time to time.

(In other words, we're more fun than a barrel of monkeys banging on
typewriters. Thanks for the warm fuzzy, Tina.)

Seems to this web charletan that if a ragtag group of amateurs armed with
modems and laptops can find the news in smalltown newspapers and radio
stations, it's not too much to expect that professional journalists, with
the vast resources of the corporate media behind them, might be expected do
us one better. The truth is out there

99% of the game is showing up, guys.



  #5  
Old September 29th 04, 07:24 PM
Jim Weir
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Ya know, folks, I really could give a hairy rat's ass what somebody did just out
of college 40 years ago. What I care about is what the person says that they
are going to do, and what I believe that they WILL do in the next four years.
That is all that counts.

I'd sure as hell hate to have to defend the stuff I did in the '60s in today's
headlines.

Jim





"JDKAHN"
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

-I'd posted this in the "liar and fraud" thread but someone suggested nobody
-would see it as that thread had kinda petered out. It's a good summary of
-the reality of Bush's Guard record:



Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com
  #6  
Old September 29th 04, 08:52 PM
Barnyard BOb -
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Jim Weir wrote:

I'd sure as hell hate to have to defend the stuff I did in the '60s in today's
headlines.

Jim

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

How different we see ourselves.

The '60's were some of my finest years.
I did good - killing gazillions of boll weevils
on a lot of southern cotton plantations. g


Barnyard BOb -- over a half century of flight
  #7  
Old September 29th 04, 10:29 PM
Jim Weir
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

The 60s were some of my finest years too; working on Surveyor, Apollo, and
Viking were on that list.

As were killing gazillions of brain cells with recreational chemistry {;-)


Jim



Barnyard BOb -
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:


-The '60's were some of my finest years.
-I did good - killing gazillions of boll weevils
-on a lot of southern cotton plantations. g
-
-
-Barnyard BOb -- over a half century of flight



Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com
  #8  
Old September 30th 04, 09:52 AM
dancingstar
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
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Jim Weir wrote:

As were killing gazillions of brain cells with recreational chemistry {;-)


My kind of guy! ;-)

Antonio

  #9  
Old October 3rd 04, 12:24 AM
Steelgtr62
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Posts: n/a
Default

I don't care if Bush smoked dope or knocked up the hippie chick down the
street. I care that he has a cardiac patient with a serious conflict of
interest in his background for a Vice President and a fundie nutter for an
Attorney General. I care that he's a basically ill-tempered and unlearned rich
kid that got a Guard fighter slot, a ball club and an oil business by being
Bush Jr. and didn't shine at any of it.

Is he the worst possible president? No. But is he anything close to the best?

  #10  
Old October 3rd 04, 02:04 PM
Matt Whiting
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Steelgtr62 wrote:

I don't care if Bush smoked dope or knocked up the hippie chick down the
street. I care that he has a cardiac patient with a serious conflict of
interest in his background for a Vice President and a fundie nutter for an
Attorney General. I care that he's a basically ill-tempered and unlearned rich
kid that got a Guard fighter slot, a ball club and an oil business by being
Bush Jr. and didn't shine at any of it.

Is he the worst possible president? No. But is he anything close to the best?


Probably not, but he's better than Kerry and that is all that matters
this year.


Matt

 




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