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ADSB panel display



 
 
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  #19  
Old October 12th 18, 11:45 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Alastair Lyas[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default ADSB panel display


I can certainly read the specs off a website and wave my willy with a
lot of talk of what products are currently on the market.



At 09:18 12 October 2018, Darryl Ramm wrote:

Oh we need stuff to "work together" and have "low power

consumption". No
sh=
it batman. You just worked this out? I don't get the impression you

have
mu=
ch of an idea of the technology here, but please do go explain to

uAvionix
=
and others what they should be doing for the glider market...


On Friday, October 12, 2018 at 1:45:03 AM UTC-7, Alastair Lyas

wrote:
If you fly anywhere near other gliders then a simple proximity

alarm=20
is going to get pretty annoying and be pretty useless. If you fly

near=20
GA then ADSB is going to become essential. This is true of the

US,=20
the UK, and probably EU. If you fly in a glider with finite

battery=20
then an ADSB transceiver makes a whole lot more sense than

a=20
transponder.
=20
Regulation will need to catch-up, and the product set needs

to=20
evolve. Flarm and UAVionix are working together. What they

need is=20
to hear from gliderpilots about what solutions will work for

us.=20
Otherwise all they will design for is GA.=20
=20
My view is we want a combined Powerflarm / ADSB OEM

module=20
that can slot into the native gliding navigation systems. With=20
software configurability to deal with the regional legalities of

doing=20
this in the short term.
=20
=20
At 23:52 11 October 2018, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Thursday, October 11, 2018 at 2:47:12 PM UTC-7,

Darryl=20
Ramm wrote:
On Thursday, October 11, 2018 at 2:30:05 AM UTC-7,

Alastair=20
Lyas wrote:
Might be worth waiting for products combining both

ADSB=20
and=3D20
Flarm?
=3D20
The uAvionix SkyEcho 2 is innovative in ways, but to me it

has=20
lots of
li=3D
mitations and is just not that interesting for the USA glider

market=20
at
lea=3D
st, which is why I've not mentioned it before on r.a.s. But

here=20
goes...
=3D20
I always expect there is interesting stuff coming, but folks

do=20
need to
=3D
be a little careful what they might decide to wait for. Well over

a=20
decade
=3D
ago some folks in the Minden area were waiting for mythical

UAT=20
devices
tha=3D
t never happened, lots of handwaving not grounded in reality,

and=20
in some
c=3D
ases owners unfortunately were putting off transponder

adoption=20
because of
=3D
that. Let's not repeat anything like that again. And for the

SkyEcho=20
2 we
d=3D
on't need to wait to actually look at what this device does or

does=20
not do
=3D
since documentation has been available for a while. And much

of=20
my
comments=3D
below come from just reading that documentation... but OK,

with=20
a pretty
g=3D
ood understanding of the underlying technology.
=3D20
The SkyEcho 2 does not include a FLARM transceiver, so in

the=20
USA today
y=3D
ou would be adding a PowerFLARM to it via the

FLARMBridge=20
option to get
FLA=3D
RM capability. That immediately makes it uninteresting to lots

of=20
glider
ow=3D
ners. According to the documentation the combined devices

do=20
*not* take
ADS=3D
-B traffic and output that on a FLARM serial protocol link so

the=20
usual
tra=3D
ffic displays used in a glider can see them... it seems to only

works=20
the
o=3D
ther way and takes FLARM traffic and adds it to what is being

sent=20
over
GLD=3D
-90 protocol to GA EFBs etc. The reverse of what most glider

pilots=20
want
in=3D
a cockpit (and what PowerFLARM does today for 1090ES

Direct=20
traffic). And
=3D
I'll bet it converts PowerFLARMs more useful traffic warnings

say=20
when
ther=3D
malling with other gliders into ADS-B warnings going off all

the=20
time
nons=3D
ense. And given how the FLARM ICD (serial protocol) and GLD-

90=20
works I
doub=3D
t there is any sane way not to have to do that. But OK, it is

what it=20
is,
a=3D
nd very clearly this product is *not* aimed at gliders.
=3D20
I'm not sure uAvionix have promised USA FCC approval for

that=20
device
yet.=3D
I expect they are likely to. It's not FCC approved today so

can't=20
even be
=3D
advertised in the USA... which may well be why there is

nothing=20
mentioned
o=3D
n their USA website or why they don't want to irritate the FCC

by=20
even
talk=3D
ing about it. Having been to the FCC approval mosh pit (I

was=20
going to
cal=3D
l it a dance :-)) several times before uAvionix should know

very=20
well
what=3D
they are doing with FCC approval.
=3D20
Their launch for the product was very UK centric, which

was=20
pretty
intere=3D
sting given how far behind overall ADS-B adoption is in Europe

vs.=20
the
USA,=3D
they seem to be hoping to move that needle, ride on UK

interest=20
in TABS
an=3D
d FIS-B trials and combining some FLARM capability. So quite

a=20
intersting
k=3D
itchen sink of a product for those uses and very interesting

that=20
uAvionix
=3D
are so growth oriented they are lookin at trying to seed

that=20
market.
=3D20
So then you want to ask if you need an actual

PowerFLARM=20
device to
conne=3D
ct to the SkyEcho 2 to do FLARM then what else does the

SkyEcho=20
2=20
provide,=3D
and importantly is it a replacement for a transponder?
=3D20
Importantly the SkyEcho 2 *not* a full transponder but

does=20
implement
TAB=3D
S/TSO-C199 so should provide compatibility with TCAS which

is=20
obviously
imp=3D
ortant. I'd love to see one working. ATC will likely not see

that=20
device
ho=3D
wever and that's going to be an issue in many places near

busy=20
ATC areas.=20
=3D
ATC *does* sees Trig transponders running as TABS devices,

as=20
they are
full=3D
transponders underneath the TABS 1090ES Out part. The

ATC=20
visibility part
=3D
is a large concern for me, especially around places like the

Minden=20
area
wh=3D
ich this thread started with. Without ATC visibility I would

not=20
recommend
=3D
that device for use in that area. I'd love to eventually get

my=20
hands on
on=3D
e to confirm and to talk about it with the friendly NOCAL

TRACON=20
tech
folks=3D
who cover the Reno area.
=3D20
You also can't install this (or any other TABS) device in

an=20
aircraft
wit=3D
h an existing Mode C or Mode S transponder.... so can't

get=20
visibility to
A=3D
TC that way. I can't imagine any glider owner with a

transponder=20
in their
g=3D
lider who would want to pull it out and replace it with a

SkyEcho 2=20
if
tha=3D
t meant losing visibility to ATC... a large part of why they

installed=
=20
the
=3D
transponder to start with.
=3D20
The SkyEcho 2 also won't meet FAA 2020 ADS-B Out=20

requirements, and
althou=3D
gh gliders are partially exempt, we still have folks who want to

say
overfl=3D
y Class C airspace (but below 10,000').
=3D20
It's a little confusing in some many ways the SkyEcho

seems=20
more
targeted=3D
at UAVs (or maybe ultralights) but things like UAT In/FIS-B

is=20
more a GA
f=3D
eature, so it sure is an intersting product to follow for geeks

like=20
me,=20
b=3D
ut kind of wedged into a space between others products,

especially=20
with
ful=3D
l Mode S/1090ES Out transponders on one side. We'll see....
=3D20
Other products with combined ADS-B and FLARM

capabilities...
=3D20
PowerFLARM today does 1090ES In (Direct only, no ADS-R

and=20
TIS-B) and
FLA=3D
RM. (effectively all PowerFLARM sold in the USA have the

1090ES=20
In
option).=3D
=3D20
=3D20
LXNav PowerMouse is coming, apparently undergoing

FCC=20
approval, with
its=3D
ADS-B In option it does 1090ES In (but unlike PowerFLARM

it=20
*does* ADS-R
=3D
and hopefully TIS-B) and FLARM. (hopefully LXNav will be

smart=20
here and
the=3D
PowerMouse sold in the USA will all have 1090ES In option).
=3D20
Other vendors like AirAvionic have new FLARM products

with=20
1090ES In
capa=3D
bilities coming, I wish they would start describing those

product=20
specs
and=3D
capabilities more clearly and ideally clarifying their plans for

the=20
USA
m=3D
arket. (their ATD57 display is still great however if anybody

wants=20
a
dedic=3D
ated FLARM display).
=3D20
---
=3D20
Alastair I assume you are in the UK? or elsewhere in Europe.

I'm=20
you not
=3D
sure why you care about FLARM and the USA with a LXNav

9070,=20
but if you
re=3D
ally want to operate in the USA hopefully you have a

standard=20
PowerFLARM
ex=3D
ternal box (i.e. a model with FCC approval) connected to the

9070.

You are a stud!

J




 




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