A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Soaring
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

ADSB panel display



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old October 10th 18, 01:14 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 35
Default ADSB panel display

On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 3:48:04 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Monday, October 8, 2018 at 6:39:12 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, October 8, 2018 at 5:38:39 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Monday, October 8, 2018 at 5:14:16 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, October 8, 2018 at 12:55:09 PM UTC-7, Ben Hirashima wrote:
Have you seen an iPhone X display in sunlight? I find it perfectly readable. Technology is constantly improving...

thank you Ben, I did look at an iphone X at max brightness, but didn't consider it any better than my iphone 8+. I do manage to use Foreflight on my iphone 8+, but it is a struggle, not what I call 'easily readable' in my cockpit, as my LX moving map is. I'm in Nevada, where the sun is very bright, even with a blue canopy. I want a panel mounted, dedicated, bright display for adsb targets.

PowerFLARM connected to a AirAvionic ATD is likely the best you will get there.

No UAT In/TIS-B/ADS-R support, but them are the tradeoffs.


Its enormously more expensive to buy the AirAvionic adsb/flarm receiver that works with their ATD57, so I won't be doing that. I suspect AirAvionic is not providing an adsb protocol is some business reason they have to support Flarm. In my opinion, in the US, Flarm is a harmful distraction of money better spent on adsb.


I mentioned the PowerFLARM and AirAvionic ATD (ATD57) display. In the USA if you want to get a traffic display to a FLARM serial compatible display today that is how you do it. There is no AirAvionic FLARM device similar to PowerFLARM actually FCC approved for use in the USA and AirAvionic don't seem to care much about USA/FAA ADS-B requirements or FCC device approval so I'd not hold my breath there. The next FLARM device I expect to be FCC approved in the USA is the LXNav PowerMouse.

The PowerMouse uses a later generation FLARM ADS-B chipset than PowerFLARM and should support ADS-R and hopefully TIS-B. And hopefully LXNav will only sell the version with ADS-B (as well as FLARM() in the USA.

The choice is yours, if you want to use a FLARM display you need to drive that with a device that talks FLARM serial protocol, if you want to talk to a GDL compatible display you can use a suitable GDL compatible ADS-B source, But I don't undated why a glider flying in glider-busy Nevada would not want a FLARM system more so than ADS-B *In*. Transponder and ADS-B Out give you lots of protection to other aircraft as well.



Hi Daryl, thanks for your comments as usual. I'd have both systems (Flarm and adsb) in my glider if money and battery power and panel area were free. But having invested in a Trig 22 (which I felt was essential, much more than flarm, when moving to Minden) and recently having added adsb-out, I feel my best course forward is to get adsb-in. Adsb recieivers are cheap, but nice displays like ATD57 won't work with them, they only accept proprietary flarm protocol. I wonder why, it seems against market wishes. I personally feel that Flarm was a great early solution, but will soon be wasted money in the USA. In fact its even harmful, in syphoning money better spend on adsb.. I think flarm's promise of 'safe gaggling' is not realistic now, if it ever was, since not all gliders do or will have flarm in the US.

Ads
  #22  
Old October 10th 18, 01:39 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,342
Default ADSB panel display

Hmmmmmm...* A possibility might be a daylight readable Android device
running XCSoar and kept zoomed in to about 10 miles or even something
less.* Also turn off the terrain so that you just have a plain white
screen.* You could also use a null turn point file and turn off all or
most of the other stuff so that you just have the white screen
displaying ADS-B and Flarm targets.

The device could be strapped to your leg or mounted to a stand off
attached to the side of your panel.

In my Stemme, I have a ClearNav II system on the left side, but I also
have a Dell Streak 5 on the right side running XCSoar.* It provides good
target information based upon the serial stream from the PowerFlarm.

On 10/9/2018 6:14 PM, wrote:

Hi Daryl, thanks for your comments as usual. I'd have both systems (Flarm and adsb) in my glider if money and battery power and panel area were free. But having invested in a Trig 22 (which I felt was essential, much more than flarm, when moving to Minden) and recently having added adsb-out, I feel my best course forward is to get adsb-in. Adsb recieivers are cheap, but nice displays like ATD57 won't work with them, they only accept proprietary flarm protocol. I wonder why, it seems against market wishes. I personally feel that Flarm was a great early solution, but will soon be wasted money in the USA. In fact its even harmful, in syphoning money better spend on adsb. I think flarm's promise of 'safe gaggling' is not realistic now, if it ever was, since not all gliders do or will have flarm in the US.


--
Dan, 5J
  #23  
Old October 10th 18, 02:22 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 498
Default ADSB panel display

On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 9:22:12 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 10:59:07 AM UTC-5, Ramy wrote:
Since you fly in Nevada the best thing to do is install powerflarm and connect to your LXNAV which will show you ADSB traffic as well. This is my setup and I see ADSB traffic all the time, in addition to glider traffic.

Ramy


Towing behind Keith' ADS-B equipped Cessna this year I had this new and awful warning sound from my PFlarm that stopped after release. I'm still trying to configure my TT22 and TN72 combo for ADS-B out but I have the same concern as T8 expressed.
J7


Herb,

Get (treat) yourself a motorglider and you won't get those annoying alarms.

Tom
  #24  
Old October 10th 18, 02:37 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Darryl Ramm
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,186
Default ADSB panel display


Dan

He is after a GDL-90 protocol ADS-B traffic display. You and Ramy can keep recommending FLARM compatible FLARM-serial protocol displays until the cows come come, but unless he wants to buy a PowerFLARM or PowerMouse that's not going to help him. XCSoar receives FLARM serial protocol traffic, not GDL-90. It could if somebody wanted to write the code...


On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 5:39:37 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
Hmmmmmm...* A possibility might be a daylight readable Android device
running XCSoar and kept zoomed in to about 10 miles or even something
less.* Also turn off the terrain so that you just have a plain white
screen.* You could also use a null turn point file and turn off all or
most of the other stuff so that you just have the white screen
displaying ADS-B and Flarm targets.

The device could be strapped to your leg or mounted to a stand off
attached to the side of your panel.

In my Stemme, I have a ClearNav II system on the left side, but I also
have a Dell Streak 5 on the right side running XCSoar.* It provides good
target information based upon the serial stream from the PowerFlarm.

On 10/9/2018 6:14 PM, wrote:

Hi Daryl, thanks for your comments as usual. I'd have both systems (Flarm and adsb) in my glider if money and battery power and panel area were free. But having invested in a Trig 22 (which I felt was essential, much more than flarm, when moving to Minden) and recently having added adsb-out, I feel my best course forward is to get adsb-in. Adsb recieivers are cheap, but nice displays like ATD57 won't work with them, they only accept proprietary flarm protocol. I wonder why, it seems against market wishes. I personally feel that Flarm was a great early solution, but will soon be wasted money in the USA. In fact its even harmful, in syphoning money better spend on adsb. I think flarm's promise of 'safe gaggling' is not realistic now, if it ever was, since not all gliders do or will have flarm in the US.


--
Dan, 5J


  #25  
Old October 10th 18, 08:11 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 256
Default ADSB panel display

Regarding the comment about "Flarms promise of safe haggling", right from the very start of Swiss Flarm in Europe, Flarm emphasised that "See and Avoid" was more effective than Flarm in a thermal gaggle. The objective of Flarm warnings between gliders is to alert us to the possibility of conflicts with gliders the presence of which we might not have been aware of - rather than to micro-manage flight safety in a dense gaggle of gliders in a thermal who damn well out to know the others are there.

With the US getting Power Flarm and never original Flarm it seems that a lot of pilots immediately picked up on the Power side of Power Flarm and saw it as a competitor to GA/CA ADSB rather than fully appreciating benefits and design limitations of the Flarm side.

Not against ADSB but it is not for the foreseeable future an alternative to the Flarm aspect of PF for gliders. I too am trying to figure out the best and most space efficient way to get an LX 9000 PowerFlarm + transponder + radio + ADSB + displays into a panel. I think the Air Avionic ATD 57 controller display has to be part of the solution to save panel holes.
  #26  
Old October 11th 18, 04:49 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ramy[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 382
Default ADSB panel display

You do realize that almost every glider flying around Minden has Flarm, so your highest risk in Minden area is glider midair. We not talking gaggles here, we talking about one of the most condensed glider traffic in the US with 3 active gliderport. Your priority is wrong, powerflarm should be your next priority after transponder.
While it is true that your ADSB will warm other powerflarm equipped gliders, such as myself, I believe you will cause constant alarm to all your buddies in thermals since you don’t have powerflarm. If this will be the case, soon you will find yourself lonely in the sky...

Ramy
  #27  
Old October 11th 18, 10:23 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Alastair Lyas[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default ADSB panel display


Might be worth waiting for products combining both ADSB and
Flarm?

https://uavionix.com/news/uavionix-a...ollaborate-to-
create-electronic-conspicuity-solutions-for-manned-and-unmanned-
aircraft/

https://uavionix.com/products/skyecho/ (Scroll down to see
FLARMbridge)

My LX9070PF has powerflarm fitted (and is software configurable to
work in US/EU). It is already possible to buy a version with ADSB
receiver. Hoping it is only time before it is possible to buy one with a
transceiver)



At 03:49 11 October 2018, Ramy wrote:
You do realize that almost every glider flying around Minden has

Flarm, so
=
your highest risk in Minden area is glider midair. We not talking

gaggles
h=
ere, we talking about one of the most condensed glider traffic in

the US
wi=
th 3 active gliderport. Your priority is wrong, powerflarm should be

your
n=
ext priority after transponder.=20
While it is true that your ADSB will warm other powerflarm

equipped
gliders=
, such as myself, I believe you will cause constant alarm to all your
buddi=
es in thermals since you don=E2=80=99t have powerflarm. If this

will be
the=
case, soon you will find yourself lonely in the sky...

Ramy


  #28  
Old October 11th 18, 11:22 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike Schumann[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 131
Default ADSB panel display

On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 at 10:49:56 PM UTC-5, Ramy wrote:
You do realize that almost every glider flying around Minden has Flarm, so your highest risk in Minden area is glider midair. We not talking gaggles here, we talking about one of the most condensed glider traffic in the US with 3 active gliderport. Your priority is wrong, powerflarm should be your next priority after transponder.
While it is true that your ADSB will warm other powerflarm equipped gliders, such as myself, I believe you will cause constant alarm to all your buddies in thermals since you don’t have powerflarm. If this will be the case, soon you will find yourself lonely in the sky...

Ramy


According to Airnav there are a total of 353 aircraft based at Minden. 101 of these are gliders. There's a lot of GA traffic there, not just gliders.. PowerFlarm, given its half baked implementation, is not the panacea. ADS-B is the future in the US. The FLARM guys need to get their **** together and conform to the realities of the US environment.
  #29  
Old October 11th 18, 03:55 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
JS[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 347
Default ADSB panel display

On Thursday, October 11, 2018 at 3:22:38 AM UTC-7, Mike Schumann wrote:
On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 at 10:49:56 PM UTC-5, Ramy wrote:
You do realize that almost every glider flying around Minden has Flarm, so your highest risk in Minden area is glider midair. We not talking gaggles here, we talking about one of the most condensed glider traffic in the US with 3 active gliderport. Your priority is wrong, powerflarm should be your next priority after transponder.
While it is true that your ADSB will warm other powerflarm equipped gliders, such as myself, I believe you will cause constant alarm to all your buddies in thermals since you don’t have powerflarm. If this will be the case, soon you will find yourself lonely in the sky...

Ramy


According to Airnav there are a total of 353 aircraft based at Minden. 101 of these are gliders. There's a lot of GA traffic there, not just gliders. PowerFlarm, given its half baked implementation, is not the panacea. ADS-B is the future in the US. The FLARM guys need to get their **** together and conform to the realities of the US environment.


Here we go again.
Jim

  #30  
Old October 11th 18, 04:46 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tom BravoMike
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 142
Default ADSB panel display

On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 at 10:49:56 PM UTC-5, Ramy wrote:
You do realize that almost every glider flying around Minden has Flarm, so your highest risk in Minden area is glider midair.(snip) Ramy


If those over 100 gliders around Minden don't have a transponder (because they gave a priority to the PowerFlarm), they are a threat to the GA in the area, and anywhere else. If they do have transponders, they will be seen on ADSB (and PF)devices.


What I resist and can't agree with is that PowerFlarm supporters expect that gliders, with their very limited panels space and electrical energy supply, be equipped with BOTH a transponder AND the Flarm. Telling us that if you can't afford both, PowerFlarm should be your first choice, contradicts my experience. And yes, I have flown at Minden (got my Gold there, missed Diamond by 210 meters), and at Seminole, and from Tom Knauff's Ridge Gliderport, and in California and in Michigan. It was in Julian, PA, that an airliner approaching State College called on the radio asking if there were gliders over the ridge. Had I had a transponder, he would have seen me without asking. The PowerFlarm alone wouldn't have helped. Yes, what we need is a device combining both, ideally… and in the meantime - wait, there no meantime, get the ADS-B now!
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ADSB out in tow planes Charles Longley Soaring 57 June 5th 18 04:39 AM
FS: Butterfly PowerFlarm 57mm panel display $130 shipped Tango Eight Soaring 1 April 28th 15 10:11 PM
NEW PANEL DISPLAY COMPARISON Richard[_9_] Soaring 11 September 15th 09 08:30 AM
In panel display of encoding information? Dave[_16_] Home Built 4 September 20th 07 08:10 PM
Instrument panel will not display on laptop John Bell Simulators 6 January 7th 05 12:30 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2018 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.