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FLARM releases firmware for ADS-R and TIS-B



 
 
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  #31  
Old January 19th 21, 08:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charles Gillespie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default FLARM releases firmware for ADS-R and TIS-B

On Wednesday, January 13, 2021 at 4:33:47 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
Please remember that for ADS-R and TIS-B to work reliably your glider needs to be ADS-B Out equipped. That can be 2020 Compliant or TABS (but not say any old GPS providing position data to ADS-B Out with SIL=0) this allows the glider to be it a client of the ADS-R and TIS-B ground based services.. You also need to configure the ADS-B Out to describe that the glider/PowerFLARM can receive ADS-B data on 1090ES. Since we are talking almost excessively Trig transponders that means that on the Trig transponder ADS-B setup menu you set "1090ES In" to YES and "UAT In" to NO. (that's the way I've been encouraging folks to set this up anyhow... waiting for this day to come :-)).

If your glider has ADS-B Out today and PowerFLARM this is something I would encourage you to just install over winter. If you fly near dense GA traffic (which may be more likely to be UAT Out or only transponder equipped) then this may be justification for upgrading to ADS-B Out to enable your glider to be a ADS-R and TIS-B client.... and also to ensure that hopefully much of that traffic can also see you.

This update has been a significant amount of work from FLARM, to serve a relatively small customer base in the USA. And it's not trivial to implement, thanks Jerome and Urban at Flarm for doing the hard work here. Also thanks to folks in the USA who have test flow this over the last few months.

Do you have ADS-R and TIS-B ADS-B ground service coverage near your gliderport? Or other busy traffic areas? You can start by lookin at the FAA ADS-B coverage maps in Google Earth: https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/research/airspace (the radar coverage info there will also give you an idea if you will see traffic via SSR/TIS-B).
On Wednesday, January 13, 2021 at 9:34:59 AM UTC-8, wrote:
Hi All - FLARM has announced release of firmware supporting ADS-R and
TIS-B reception. This feature is included in new firmware for Core
Fusion. For original PowerFLARM core and portable, this requires a
license available he
https://flarm.com/shop/ads-r-and-tis-b-reception-adsr/

Firmware is available he
https://flarm.com/support/firmware-u...nload-firmware.

Additional info about this feature he
https://flarm.com/products/product-add-ons/ads-r-tis-b.

Enjoy!
Best Regards, Dave


Darryl,
Is it correct to say that if you have Powerflarm and ADS-B Out, then there is no benefit to getting the ADSR license, as you're getting the UAT re-transmission into the 30nm hockey puck already?
Charlie
  #32  
Old January 19th 21, 11:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Darryl Ramm
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,403
Default FLARM releases firmware for ADS-R and TIS-B

On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 11:48:07 AM UTC-8, Charles Gillespie wrote:
On Wednesday, January 13, 2021 at 4:33:47 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
Please remember that for ADS-R and TIS-B to work reliably your glider needs to be ADS-B Out equipped. That can be 2020 Compliant or TABS (but not say any old GPS providing position data to ADS-B Out with SIL=0) this allows the glider to be it a client of the ADS-R and TIS-B ground based services. You also need to configure the ADS-B Out to describe that the glider/PowerFLARM can receive ADS-B data on 1090ES. Since we are talking almost excessively Trig transponders that means that on the Trig transponder ADS-B setup menu you set "1090ES In" to YES and "UAT In" to NO. (that's the way I've been encouraging folks to set this up anyhow... waiting for this day to come :-)).

If your glider has ADS-B Out today and PowerFLARM this is something I would encourage you to just install over winter. If you fly near dense GA traffic (which may be more likely to be UAT Out or only transponder equipped) then this may be justification for upgrading to ADS-B Out to enable your glider to be a ADS-R and TIS-B client.... and also to ensure that hopefully much of that traffic can also see you.

This update has been a significant amount of work from FLARM, to serve a relatively small customer base in the USA. And it's not trivial to implement, thanks Jerome and Urban at Flarm for doing the hard work here. Also thanks to folks in the USA who have test flow this over the last few months.

Do you have ADS-R and TIS-B ADS-B ground service coverage near your gliderport? Or other busy traffic areas? You can start by lookin at the FAA ADS-B coverage maps in Google Earth: https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/research/airspace (the radar coverage info there will also give you an idea if you will see traffic via SSR/TIS-B).
On Wednesday, January 13, 2021 at 9:34:59 AM UTC-8, wrote:
Hi All - FLARM has announced release of firmware supporting ADS-R and
TIS-B reception. This feature is included in new firmware for Core
Fusion. For original PowerFLARM core and portable, this requires a
license available he
https://flarm.com/shop/ads-r-and-tis-b-reception-adsr/

Firmware is available he
https://flarm.com/support/firmware-u...nload-firmware.

Additional info about this feature he
https://flarm.com/products/product-add-ons/ads-r-tis-b.

Enjoy!
Best Regards, Dave

Darryl,
Is it correct to say that if you have Powerflarm and ADS-B Out, then there is no benefit to getting the ADSR license, as you're getting the UAT re-transmission into the 30nm hockey puck already?
Charlie


It's actually the opposite. If you have ADS-B Out, and configure it so you get ADS-R and TIS-B services (e.g. set up the ADS-B Out so it advertises your aircraft can receive ADS-B In on 1090ES) the PowerFLARM will still not decode the ADS-R and TIS-B messages. They are close to but different than a plain ADS-B direct message... which is why we are here in the first place with FLARM having to implement separate code to deal with those messages. If you have ADS-B Out already (2020 compliant or TABS) then you are the intended customer for this PowerFLARM ADS-R/TIS-B option.

  #33  
Old January 19th 21, 11:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charles Gillespie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default FLARM releases firmware for ADS-R and TIS-B

On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 3:23:05 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 11:48:07 AM UTC-8, Charles Gillespie wrote:
On Wednesday, January 13, 2021 at 4:33:47 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
Please remember that for ADS-R and TIS-B to work reliably your glider needs to be ADS-B Out equipped. That can be 2020 Compliant or TABS (but not say any old GPS providing position data to ADS-B Out with SIL=0) this allows the glider to be it a client of the ADS-R and TIS-B ground based services. You also need to configure the ADS-B Out to describe that the glider/PowerFLARM can receive ADS-B data on 1090ES. Since we are talking almost excessively Trig transponders that means that on the Trig transponder ADS-B setup menu you set "1090ES In" to YES and "UAT In" to NO. (that's the way I've been encouraging folks to set this up anyhow... waiting for this day to come :-)).

If your glider has ADS-B Out today and PowerFLARM this is something I would encourage you to just install over winter. If you fly near dense GA traffic (which may be more likely to be UAT Out or only transponder equipped) then this may be justification for upgrading to ADS-B Out to enable your glider to be a ADS-R and TIS-B client.... and also to ensure that hopefully much of that traffic can also see you.

This update has been a significant amount of work from FLARM, to serve a relatively small customer base in the USA. And it's not trivial to implement, thanks Jerome and Urban at Flarm for doing the hard work here. Also thanks to folks in the USA who have test flow this over the last few months..

Do you have ADS-R and TIS-B ADS-B ground service coverage near your gliderport? Or other busy traffic areas? You can start by lookin at the FAA ADS-B coverage maps in Google Earth: https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/research/airspace (the radar coverage info there will also give you an idea if you will see traffic via SSR/TIS-B).
On Wednesday, January 13, 2021 at 9:34:59 AM UTC-8, wrote:
Hi All - FLARM has announced release of firmware supporting ADS-R and
TIS-B reception. This feature is included in new firmware for Core
Fusion. For original PowerFLARM core and portable, this requires a
license available he
https://flarm.com/shop/ads-r-and-tis-b-reception-adsr/

Firmware is available he
https://flarm.com/support/firmware-u...nload-firmware.

Additional info about this feature he
https://flarm.com/products/product-add-ons/ads-r-tis-b.

Enjoy!
Best Regards, Dave

Darryl,
Is it correct to say that if you have Powerflarm and ADS-B Out, then there is no benefit to getting the ADSR license, as you're getting the UAT re-transmission into the 30nm hockey puck already?
Charlie

It's actually the opposite. If you have ADS-B Out, and configure it so you get ADS-R and TIS-B services (e.g. set up the ADS-B Out so it advertises your aircraft can receive ADS-B In on 1090ES) the PowerFLARM will still not decode the ADS-R and TIS-B messages. They are close to but different than a plain ADS-B direct message... which is why we are here in the first place with FLARM having to implement separate code to deal with those messages. If you have ADS-B Out already (2020 compliant or TABS) then you are the intended customer for this PowerFLARM ADS-R/TIS-B option.


So to be clear, a Powerflarm with 2020 Compliant ADS-B Out is not really a client of ADS-R and TIS-B ground-based services unless it also has the ADSR license to decode this information, true? Thanks for your insight.
  #34  
Old January 20th 21, 12:07 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Darryl Ramm
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,403
Default FLARM releases firmware for ADS-R and TIS-B

On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 2:44:21 PM UTC-8, Charles Gillespie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 3:23:05 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 11:48:07 AM UTC-8, Charles Gillespie wrote:
On Wednesday, January 13, 2021 at 4:33:47 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
Please remember that for ADS-R and TIS-B to work reliably your glider needs to be ADS-B Out equipped. That can be 2020 Compliant or TABS (but not say any old GPS providing position data to ADS-B Out with SIL=0) this allows the glider to be it a client of the ADS-R and TIS-B ground based services. You also need to configure the ADS-B Out to describe that the glider/PowerFLARM can receive ADS-B data on 1090ES. Since we are talking almost excessively Trig transponders that means that on the Trig transponder ADS-B setup menu you set "1090ES In" to YES and "UAT In" to NO. (that's the way I've been encouraging folks to set this up anyhow... waiting for this day to come :-)).

If your glider has ADS-B Out today and PowerFLARM this is something I would encourage you to just install over winter. If you fly near dense GA traffic (which may be more likely to be UAT Out or only transponder equipped) then this may be justification for upgrading to ADS-B Out to enable your glider to be a ADS-R and TIS-B client.... and also to ensure that hopefully much of that traffic can also see you.

This update has been a significant amount of work from FLARM, to serve a relatively small customer base in the USA. And it's not trivial to implement, thanks Jerome and Urban at Flarm for doing the hard work here. Also thanks to folks in the USA who have test flow this over the last few months.

Do you have ADS-R and TIS-B ADS-B ground service coverage near your gliderport? Or other busy traffic areas? You can start by lookin at the FAA ADS-B coverage maps in Google Earth: https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/research/airspace (the radar coverage info there will also give you an idea if you will see traffic via SSR/TIS-B).
On Wednesday, January 13, 2021 at 9:34:59 AM UTC-8, wrote:
Hi All - FLARM has announced release of firmware supporting ADS-R and
TIS-B reception. This feature is included in new firmware for Core
Fusion. For original PowerFLARM core and portable, this requires a
license available he
https://flarm.com/shop/ads-r-and-tis-b-reception-adsr/

Firmware is available he
https://flarm.com/support/firmware-u...nload-firmware.

Additional info about this feature he
https://flarm.com/products/product-add-ons/ads-r-tis-b.

Enjoy!
Best Regards, Dave
Darryl,
Is it correct to say that if you have Powerflarm and ADS-B Out, then there is no benefit to getting the ADSR license, as you're getting the UAT re-transmission into the 30nm hockey puck already?
Charlie

It's actually the opposite. If you have ADS-B Out, and configure it so you get ADS-R and TIS-B services (e.g. set up the ADS-B Out so it advertises your aircraft can receive ADS-B In on 1090ES) the PowerFLARM will still not decode the ADS-R and TIS-B messages. They are close to but different than a plain ADS-B direct message... which is why we are here in the first place with FLARM having to implement separate code to deal with those messages.. If you have ADS-B Out already (2020 compliant or TABS) then you are the intended customer for this PowerFLARM ADS-R/TIS-B option.

So to be clear, a Powerflarm with 2020 Compliant ADS-B Out is not really a client of ADS-R and TIS-B ground-based services unless it also has the ADSR license to decode this information, true? Thanks for your insight.


Uh lets be precise/careful with this technical language. An aircraft is a client when the ground system thinks it is and is transmitting ADS-R or TIS-B data for it. Whether your PowerFLARM can decode ADS-R or TIS-B nothing on the ground can tell. All the FAA ADS-B ground infrastructure has to rely on is the aircraft position data, some information about the GPS fix quality/accuracy (i.e. if they fall below a certain level the ground system stops treating you as a client) and the capability code bits set in the ADS-B Out system that describe what ADS-B In link layer(s) the aircraft has. And I've been encouraging everybody to set "1090ES Out" ==YES in the Trig ADS-B Out setups... ready for the day we have TIS-B/ADS-R support. So I'd hazard a guess that almost all gliders flying with 1090ES Out today are frequent ADS-R and TIS-B clients but it makes no difference if you can't actually decode those messages. BTW you can actually see the % flight time your aircraft was a TIS-B client in the FAA PAPR report.

  #35  
Old January 20th 21, 12:42 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charles Gillespie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default FLARM releases firmware for ADS-R and TIS-B

On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 4:07:23 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 2:44:21 PM UTC-8, Charles Gillespie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 3:23:05 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 11:48:07 AM UTC-8, Charles Gillespie wrote:
On Wednesday, January 13, 2021 at 4:33:47 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
Please remember that for ADS-R and TIS-B to work reliably your glider needs to be ADS-B Out equipped. That can be 2020 Compliant or TABS (but not say any old GPS providing position data to ADS-B Out with SIL=0) this allows the glider to be it a client of the ADS-R and TIS-B ground based services. You also need to configure the ADS-B Out to describe that the glider/PowerFLARM can receive ADS-B data on 1090ES. Since we are talking almost excessively Trig transponders that means that on the Trig transponder ADS-B setup menu you set "1090ES In" to YES and "UAT In" to NO. (that's the way I've been encouraging folks to set this up anyhow... waiting for this day to come :-)).

If your glider has ADS-B Out today and PowerFLARM this is something I would encourage you to just install over winter. If you fly near dense GA traffic (which may be more likely to be UAT Out or only transponder equipped) then this may be justification for upgrading to ADS-B Out to enable your glider to be a ADS-R and TIS-B client.... and also to ensure that hopefully much of that traffic can also see you.

This update has been a significant amount of work from FLARM, to serve a relatively small customer base in the USA. And it's not trivial to implement, thanks Jerome and Urban at Flarm for doing the hard work here. Also thanks to folks in the USA who have test flow this over the last few months.

Do you have ADS-R and TIS-B ADS-B ground service coverage near your gliderport? Or other busy traffic areas? You can start by lookin at the FAA ADS-B coverage maps in Google Earth: https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/research/airspace (the radar coverage info there will also give you an idea if you will see traffic via SSR/TIS-B).
On Wednesday, January 13, 2021 at 9:34:59 AM UTC-8, wrote:
Hi All - FLARM has announced release of firmware supporting ADS-R and
TIS-B reception. This feature is included in new firmware for Core
Fusion. For original PowerFLARM core and portable, this requires a
license available he
https://flarm.com/shop/ads-r-and-tis-b-reception-adsr/

Firmware is available he
https://flarm.com/support/firmware-u...nload-firmware.

Additional info about this feature he
https://flarm.com/products/product-add-ons/ads-r-tis-b.

Enjoy!
Best Regards, Dave
Darryl,
Is it correct to say that if you have Powerflarm and ADS-B Out, then there is no benefit to getting the ADSR license, as you're getting the UAT re-transmission into the 30nm hockey puck already?
Charlie
It's actually the opposite. If you have ADS-B Out, and configure it so you get ADS-R and TIS-B services (e.g. set up the ADS-B Out so it advertises your aircraft can receive ADS-B In on 1090ES) the PowerFLARM will still not decode the ADS-R and TIS-B messages. They are close to but different than a plain ADS-B direct message... which is why we are here in the first place with FLARM having to implement separate code to deal with those messages. If you have ADS-B Out already (2020 compliant or TABS) then you are the intended customer for this PowerFLARM ADS-R/TIS-B option.

So to be clear, a Powerflarm with 2020 Compliant ADS-B Out is not really a client of ADS-R and TIS-B ground-based services unless it also has the ADSR license to decode this information, true? Thanks for your insight.

Uh lets be precise/careful with this technical language. An aircraft is a client when the ground system thinks it is and is transmitting ADS-R or TIS-B data for it. Whether your PowerFLARM can decode ADS-R or TIS-B nothing on the ground can tell. All the FAA ADS-B ground infrastructure has to rely on is the aircraft position data, some information about the GPS fix quality/accuracy (i.e. if they fall below a certain level the ground system stops treating you as a client) and the capability code bits set in the ADS-B Out system that describe what ADS-B In link layer(s) the aircraft has. And I've been encouraging everybody to set "1090ES Out" ==YES in the Trig ADS-B Out setups... ready for the day we have TIS-B/ADS-R support. So I'd hazard a guess that almost all gliders flying with 1090ES Out today are frequent ADS-R and TIS-B clients but it makes no difference if you can't actually decode those messages. BTW you can actually see the % flight time your aircraft was a TIS-B client in the FAA PAPR report.


My PAPR shows that I was a TIS-B Client for 96.4% of the flight. Does that mean I had the hockey puck for that % of the flight?
  #36  
Old January 20th 21, 02:06 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Darryl Ramm
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,403
Default FLARM releases firmware for ADS-R and TIS-B

On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 3:42:22 PM UTC-8, Charles Gillespie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 4:07:23 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 2:44:21 PM UTC-8, Charles Gillespie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 3:23:05 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 11:48:07 AM UTC-8, Charles Gillespie wrote:
On Wednesday, January 13, 2021 at 4:33:47 PM UTC-7, Darryl Ramm wrote:
Please remember that for ADS-R and TIS-B to work reliably your glider needs to be ADS-B Out equipped. That can be 2020 Compliant or TABS (but not say any old GPS providing position data to ADS-B Out with SIL=0) this allows the glider to be it a client of the ADS-R and TIS-B ground based services. You also need to configure the ADS-B Out to describe that the glider/PowerFLARM can receive ADS-B data on 1090ES. Since we are talking almost excessively Trig transponders that means that on the Trig transponder ADS-B setup menu you set "1090ES In" to YES and "UAT In" to NO. (that's the way I've been encouraging folks to set this up anyhow... waiting for this day to come :-)).

If your glider has ADS-B Out today and PowerFLARM this is something I would encourage you to just install over winter. If you fly near dense GA traffic (which may be more likely to be UAT Out or only transponder equipped) then this may be justification for upgrading to ADS-B Out to enable your glider to be a ADS-R and TIS-B client.... and also to ensure that hopefully much of that traffic can also see you.

This update has been a significant amount of work from FLARM, to serve a relatively small customer base in the USA. And it's not trivial to implement, thanks Jerome and Urban at Flarm for doing the hard work here. Also thanks to folks in the USA who have test flow this over the last few months.

Do you have ADS-R and TIS-B ADS-B ground service coverage near your gliderport? Or other busy traffic areas? You can start by lookin at the FAA ADS-B coverage maps in Google Earth: https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipadsb/research/airspace (the radar coverage info there will also give you an idea if you will see traffic via SSR/TIS-B).
On Wednesday, January 13, 2021 at 9:34:59 AM UTC-8, wrote:
Hi All - FLARM has announced release of firmware supporting ADS-R and
TIS-B reception. This feature is included in new firmware for Core
Fusion. For original PowerFLARM core and portable, this requires a
license available he
https://flarm.com/shop/ads-r-and-tis-b-reception-adsr/

Firmware is available he
https://flarm.com/support/firmware-u...nload-firmware.

Additional info about this feature he
https://flarm.com/products/product-add-ons/ads-r-tis-b.

Enjoy!
Best Regards, Dave
Darryl,
Is it correct to say that if you have Powerflarm and ADS-B Out, then there is no benefit to getting the ADSR license, as you're getting the UAT re-transmission into the 30nm hockey puck already?
Charlie
It's actually the opposite. If you have ADS-B Out, and configure it so you get ADS-R and TIS-B services (e.g. set up the ADS-B Out so it advertises your aircraft can receive ADS-B In on 1090ES) the PowerFLARM will still not decode the ADS-R and TIS-B messages. They are close to but different than a plain ADS-B direct message... which is why we are here in the first place with FLARM having to implement separate code to deal with those messages. If you have ADS-B Out already (2020 compliant or TABS) then you are the intended customer for this PowerFLARM ADS-R/TIS-B option.
So to be clear, a Powerflarm with 2020 Compliant ADS-B Out is not really a client of ADS-R and TIS-B ground-based services unless it also has the ADSR license to decode this information, true? Thanks for your insight.

Uh lets be precise/careful with this technical language. An aircraft is a client when the ground system thinks it is and is transmitting ADS-R or TIS-B data for it. Whether your PowerFLARM can decode ADS-R or TIS-B nothing on the ground can tell. All the FAA ADS-B ground infrastructure has to rely on is the aircraft position data, some information about the GPS fix quality/accuracy (i.e. if they fall below a certain level the ground system stops treating you as a client) and the capability code bits set in the ADS-B Out system that describe what ADS-B In link layer(s) the aircraft has. And I've been encouraging everybody to set "1090ES Out" ==YES in the Trig ADS-B Out setups... ready for the day we have TIS-B/ADS-R support. So I'd hazard a guess that almost all gliders flying with 1090ES Out today are frequent ADS-R and TIS-B clients but it makes no difference if you can't actually decode those messages. BTW you can actually see the % flight time your aircraft was a TIS-B client in the FAA PAPR report.

My PAPR shows that I was a TIS-B Client for 96.4% of the flight. Does that mean I had the hockey puck for that % of the flight?


Yes. That is impressive coverage... I would want to get that ADS-R/TIS-B option.
  #37  
Old January 20th 21, 07:44 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ramy[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 601
Default FLARM releases firmware for ADS-R and TIS-B

On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 10:06:19 AM UTC-8, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
Ramy;

I am curious to know what your experience with fusion is also. What is your antenna set-up? Range get better or worse? coverage get better or worse? Did you have the same antenna set-up with the core prior to fusion (so we can compare the two boxes)?

Thanks,

Matt H


Matt, Charles, I wasn’t clear. I meant I was flying with the beta version of core with TIS-B and ADS-R before it was released last week. I don’t have the Fusion unit (yet). I am seriously considering it.


Ramy
  #38  
Old January 20th 21, 07:53 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ramy[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 601
Default FLARM releases firmware for ADS-R and TIS-B

I assume TIS-B is not available in Europe otherwise wouldn’t it be beneficial also in Europe to rebroadcast non ADS-B transponder equipped aircraft like gliders? Or in Europe there are no exceptions so all gliders have ADS-B? Otherwise there is an advantage to the US TIS-B as we can now see most gliders which are only equipped with transponders.

Ramy

On Thursday, January 14, 2021 at 6:12:27 AM UTC-8, Urban Mäder wrote:
On Thursday, January 14, 2021 at 8:23:00 AM UTC+1, wrote:
Moshe,

Only TIS-B has position uncertainty from the imprecision of SSR, which varies with the distance from the radar station. Both ADS-R and TIS-B have some position error from delay introduced by the reception-processing-rebroadcast sequence. ADS-B is not designed for close proximity collision warning - it's more a traffic separation tool - 5 miles and 1000 feet. I believe you can get ADS-R/TIS-B traffic alerts at, say, 1 mile, depending on on your display.

Yes. We will try enabling traffic alerts for ADS-R, but I'm a bit reluctant since correctly detecting tow trains may be hard, given the (uncertain) time delay.

Honestly, the dual-ADS-B setup in the US - of which ADS-R/TIS-B is the consequence - is a surprisingly complex beast. We're thus happy to hear your feedback, preferably with IGC log files sent along to .

Thanks
- Urban

  #39  
Old January 20th 21, 09:15 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Darryl Ramm
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,403
Default FLARM releases firmware for ADS-R and TIS-B

On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 10:53:27 PM UTC-8, Ramy wrote:
I assume TIS-B is not available in Europe otherwise wouldn’t it be beneficial also in Europe to rebroadcast non ADS-B transponder equipped aircraft like gliders? Or in Europe there are no exceptions so all gliders have ADS-B? Otherwise there is an advantage to the US TIS-B as we can now see most gliders which are only equipped with transponders.


Yo Ramy

(I know I'm not going to do this justice in one paragraph, but here goes). A glider type exemption for ADS-B does not really apply. European mandatory ADS-B Out carriage mandates have been more focused on IFR traffic and larger aircraft. Europe has had a different approach than the USA. It's favored what I'd see as a more structured methodical move to Mode-S and ADS-B/1090ES Out. If everybody, or at least folks in busy airspace eventually end up with ADS-B Out you maybe don't need TIS-B. But Europe has also dragged their feet in some areas. All that complex infrastructure to rebroadcast SSR as TIS-B is a significant undertaking and extra complex when you have multiple nations involved. And EUROCONTROL and SESAR and all the collaborating nations have had other priorities. TIS-B for example does not directly help increase controlled airspace utilization/density of airline flights, and wether right or wrong the airline requirements drive much of the planning in Europe, as they also did in the USA. But in the USA TIS-B (and FIS-B and continuation of Mode-C transponder use) was sold by the FAA in part to appease the GA political lobby and seen as an inducement to get folks to folks to adopt ADS-B Out... which will then enable it's use in NEXTGEN to help the airlines. I'm not sure all that political appeasement actually resulted in the best overall system. EUROCONTROL member nations prioritized adoption of Mode-S and Mode-S enhanced surveleice (Google it) to help increase airline safety and density while the USA went with "Mode-S lite" and skipped to a dual link ADS-B system.

TIS-B has been played with by European researchers so folks there sure understand the technology. Some of the Thales (currently 1090ES) ADS-B ground stations deployed in Europe should be very UAT Out/FIS-B compatible. Currently it looks like SESAR (kind of the European version of Mitre Corp.) is looking at a FIS-B like system maybe combined with some TIS-B like capability (I've not kept up) using entirely different (cellular?) frequency bands and aimed at portable devices in GA aircraft. There is a long running differences between the USA and Europe around other data uplink approaches/standards so don't expect everybody to agree on this stuff :-) (but I'd hope Europe looks hard at FIS-B over UAT).

If the future includes a lot of drones/UAVs then surveillance and traffic awareness for them may cause challenges here, all these existing systems were just not designed for that and it's going to need to affect what happens in future.

Ramy
On Thursday, January 14, 2021 at 6:12:27 AM UTC-8, Urban Mäder wrote:
On Thursday, January 14, 2021 at 8:23:00 AM UTC+1, wrote:
Moshe,

Only TIS-B has position uncertainty from the imprecision of SSR, which varies with the distance from the radar station. Both ADS-R and TIS-B have some position error from delay introduced by the reception-processing-rebroadcast sequence. ADS-B is not designed for close proximity collision warning - it's more a traffic separation tool - 5 miles and 1000 feet. I believe you can get ADS-R/TIS-B traffic alerts at, say, 1 mile, depending on on your display.

Yes. We will try enabling traffic alerts for ADS-R, but I'm a bit reluctant since correctly detecting tow trains may be hard, given the (uncertain) time delay.

Honestly, the dual-ADS-B setup in the US - of which ADS-R/TIS-B is the consequence - is a surprisingly complex beast. We're thus happy to hear your feedback, preferably with IGC log files sent along to .

Thanks
- Urban

  #40  
Old January 21st 21, 11:22 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ramy[_2_]
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Posts: 601
Default FLARM releases firmware for ADS-R and TIS-B

On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 10:44:42 PM UTC-8, Ramy wrote:
On Tuesday, January 19, 2021 at 10:06:19 AM UTC-8, Matt Herron Jr. wrote:
Ramy;

I am curious to know what your experience with fusion is also. What is your antenna set-up? Range get better or worse? coverage get better or worse? Did you have the same antenna set-up with the core prior to fusion (so we can compare the two boxes)?

Thanks,

Matt H

Matt, Charles, I wasn’t clear. I meant I was flying with the beta version of core with TIS-B and ADS-R before it was released last week. I don’t have the Fusion unit (yet). I am seriously considering it.


Ramy


I am considering upgrading to Fusion. If anyone is interested in my powerflarm core which includes all licenses including the new TIS-B/ADS-R for $1000 plus shipping please let me know.

Ramy
 




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