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FAA sticks to its guns on not allowing solo glider flight for out ofcurrency power pilots



 
 
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  #11  
Old April 28th 16, 03:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default FAA sticks to its guns on not allowing solo glider flight for outof currency power pilots

On Thursday, April 28, 2016 at 9:15:31 AM UTC-5, N97MT wrote:
I think it is best to summarize possible avenues for Flight Review alternatives here and what has been proposed so far. These should be further questioned through local DPEs and FSDOs, in my opinion. Of course, the questions could also be posed for legal interpretations by the FAA lawyers.

The scenario is that a Sport, Private, Commercial, or ATP pilot certificate holder is out of Flight Review currency in a Category other than Glider. A Recreational certificate does not include a Glider Category. The pilot is not rated in a Glider. He can not or will not complete a Flight Review in an aircraft for which he is rated. Thus he can not act as PIC, and fly solo or with passengers, in a Glider, because at a minimum he is not Flight Review current.

Two alternatives discussed so far:

(1) Complete a Phase of the Wings Program in the Glider. It seems you do not need to be rated in a Glider to do this path. You could then at least solo in the Glider and continue training for the add-on.

(2) Complete a Sport Pilot Proficiency Check for the Sport Pilot Glider add on. It seems there is no hourly training or solo requirements to do this path. Then perform a Flight Review in the Glider since you are now rated in the Glider. You could then start down the training path (ie solo glider flights and additional training) to upgrade your Glider rating to the higher level pilot certificate if you have one.

On the other hand, the above assumptions may not pan out and I am not as experienced as Bill to claim with certainty otherwise. And, the proposed alternatives may involve more time and expense than doing the Flight Review in the first place, as Bill has mentioned.

So again, we should get confirmation from the local DPEs, FSDOs and FAA legal interpretations before starting down the path of any alternatives.


I would agree that a legal interpretation from the FAA is the way to get definitive answers. I have a great deal of respect for the FAAST team members, but I have emails from two of them that contradict Bill's interpretation on the issue.

I would think that the SSA might be able to influence a "Fast Track" legal opinion on the WINGS and Sport Pilot questions. Considering that the SSA has been in contact with the FAA, and the FAA seems to realize that, although the interpretation is correct, it is not the intended consequence and peanalizes transition pilots.

  #12  
Old April 28th 16, 06:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default FAA sticks to its guns on not allowing solo glider flight for outof currency power pilots


I would think that the SSA might be able to influence a "Fast Track" legal opinion on the WINGS and Sport Pilot questions. Considering that the SSA has been in contact with the FAA, and the FAA seems to realize that, although the interpretation is correct, it is not the intended consequence and peanalizes transition pilots.


Asking for clarification is what caused the problem in the first place. At the moment it is what examiners will accept as the FAA isn't(yet) tracking flight reviews.
There is a third option, which is surrender current certificate. Seems extreme but if the transition pilot is rated only in helicopters or only in heavy multis and isn't going back it might make sense.
  #13  
Old April 28th 16, 10:22 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Daryl Hickman
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Default FAA sticks to its guns on not allowing solo glider flight for outof currency power pilots

This happened to a gentleman at our club a few weeks back. Zero interest in flying powered aircraft again. I simply put him in my Cub, did an hour and signed off a flight review. He soloed the glider. A PITA for sure, but it meets the burdensome requirements until they are (hopefully) removed.

Daryl
  #14  
Old April 29th 16, 06:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default FAA sticks to its guns on not allowing solo glider flight for outof currency power pilots

On Wednesday, April 27, 2016 at 6:01:47 PM UTC-5, wrote:
The FAA is sticking to its guns in holding that a rated power pilot who is out of currency in his power rating cannot solo in a glider when the transition pilot is not current (no current flight review) in his other rating. The most recent legal opinion is dated today, April 27, and addressed to Chris Bennett of the Southern California Soaring Academy, who requested the clarification. I have a copy of the legal opinion, but can't figure out how to attach it to this post. Send me an email if you want a copy.

The FAA realizes their ruling makes no logical sense, but they feel the ruling is compelled by the language of the FAR. They have suggested to the rule making branch of the FAA that the FAR be amended but that won't happen overnight.

In the meantime, I understand that there may be a work-a-round in the form of the FAA Wings program if the power pilot doesn't want to either get current or surrender his power rating and get a new student certificate. I'm not an expert on it, but I think that it is possible for a rated pilot to do an FAA Wings program in lieu of a flight review with an instructor. Worth checking out. I think I saw something from Cindy Brickner or someone else on the topic a few months ago when this issue first raised its ugly head.

Not sure what there is for SSA to do at this point other than to disseminate the info and advise all clubs, operators and instructors to follow the ruling. I'm sure SSA's volunteer liaisons with the FAA will encourage a prompt amendment to the FARs, but other than that I think we just have to suck it up and comply.

Best,

Phil Umphres,
SSA Treasurer


Several people with whom I have spoken think the best route of the three available options (flight review, WINGS course, surrender license for non-current rating) may be to just go get a flight review in the category of aircraft in which you hold the non-current power license. You can take a flight review without a current medical (I am told) as long as you are not the PIC. Find a friendly instructor, get a flight review sign off and then go fly gliders!

Phil Umphres
  #15  
Old April 29th 16, 09:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default FAA sticks to its guns on not allowing solo glider flight for outof currency power pilots

Phil - that works, unless you are only rated in say Helicopters, which would be cost prohibitive in the first place not to mention finding a "friendly" CFI that was willing to do such a thing.
  #16  
Old May 1st 16, 06:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Brian[_1_]
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Default FAA sticks to its guns on not allowing solo glider flight for outof currency power pilots

So Did I miss where it was explained why a commercial certificate, contains all lessor certificates (i.e. You can excercise private, or sport pilot privileges) except a Student Certificate?

Brian
  #17  
Old May 1st 16, 11:04 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default FAA sticks to its guns on not allowing solo glider flight for outof currency power pilots

Brian,In 2014 the FAA wrote in the Beard Letter "because this exception [not needing a flight review for solo] applies to student pilots, a pilot who holds a higher level certificate and has an endorsement for solo flight under 61.31(d) must comply with the flight review requirements in 61.56 before acting as pilot in command of any aircraft."

(Link to letter: http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...rpretation.pdf)


  #18  
Old May 2nd 16, 03:46 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default FAA sticks to its guns on not allowing solo glider flight for outof currency power pilots

Bill, I understand the flight review problem with FAR 61.31, what I don't under stand is why a pilot can't be soloed under FAR 61.87 using the student pilot privedges that should be included with their existing certificate (like sport and private pilot privileges, if they have a commercial certificate).

Brian
  #19  
Old May 2nd 16, 05:24 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bill T
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Default FAA sticks to its guns on not allowing solo glider flight for outof currency power pilots

If by Bill, you mean me?

It is my understanding that The FAA no longer considers a pilot with a certificate, a student. They are a rated pilot in search of additional ratings.
Hence they do not require a written test going from airplane to glider. As shown in other posts on RAS, the way to be considered a student is to turn in all your certificates and start from scratch, a student, complete with written tests and student limitations,

BillT
  #20  
Old May 2nd 16, 02:05 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
son_of_flubber
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Default FAA sticks to its guns on not allowing solo glider flight for outof currency power pilots

On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 12:24:29 AM UTC-4, Bill T wrote:

It is my understanding that The FAA no longer considers a pilot with a certificate, a student. They are a rated pilot in search of additional ratings.
Hence they do not require a written test going from airplane to glider. As shown in other posts on RAS, the way to be considered a student is to turn in all your certificates and start from scratch, a student, complete with written tests and student limitations,


This appears to work differently for PPL-Power and PPL-Glider.

In March 2016, I asked the Portland ME FSDO whether my PPL-Glider certificate would allow me to solo a power plane (assuming current medical and CFI endorsement). They told me (in writing) that I needed to obtain a valid Student Pilot license.

Has anyone obtained a different opinion from a different FSDO?

I'm hoping that IACRA is programmed correctly, and lets me obtain a student pilot certificate, even though I already hold a PPL-Glider.
 




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