Armchair CD U.S. Sports Class Nats

On Jun 16, 10:10 am, Mitch wrote:
From looking at the sports class nationals scores, And seeing that

their have been only THREE landouts in four days of a 42 glider
NATIONALS, I'm thinking CD McQuigg is not pushing his troops hard
enough at this huge contest. I have heard that he is an ultra-
conservative CD, which is fine for a regional. I am of the opinion,
however, that with a spot on the team at stake that there be a bit
more separation of the scores. What do you folks think?

Oh, by the way anyone willing to take that thankless job of CD has my
undying respect, so before you jackals flame the crud out of me,
realize I'm trying to get some interesting discussion going on here as
"The Beatles sent my father to Hell" and "My air conditioner ate my
brother" are just not what I'm looking for when I come to this group.

-EX

It is quite obviuos that you have little or no contest experience as a
glider pilot. It is very bold of you to announce that Andy McQuigg is
an easy or conservative CD! This is my second nationals, and having
much more competition experience than you I reserve the right to call
you out on your accusations against the CD. If you think that you
know so much about national soaring competitions then I invite you to
soar with us and see how you do. I doubt that you will finish in the
top half of the score sheet. If you could even find the start
cylinder! When your Discus was at Perry I noticed that the gelcoat
was flaking off, I am not sure that it is airworthy and neither are
you! Oh and imagine that.... someone else was flying the Discus also,
not you!

972
p.s
I know of a glider refinishing businness that would do you and your
glider wonders.

On Jun 19, 3:11 pm, wrote:
On Jun 16, 10:10 wrote:





From looking at the sports class nationals scores, And seeing that

their have been only THREE landouts in four days of a 42 glider
NATIONALS, I'm thinking CD McQuigg is not pushing his troops hard
enough at this huge contest. I have heard that he is an ultra-
conservative CD, which is fine for a regional. I am of the opinion,
however, that with a spot on the team at stake that there be a bit
more separation of the scores. What do you folks think?

Oh, by the way anyone willing to take that thankless job of CD has my
undying respect, so before you jackals flame the crud out of me,
realize I'm trying to get some interesting discussion going on here as
"The Beatles sent my father to Hell" and "My air conditioner ate my
brother" are just not what I'm looking for when I come to this group.

-EX

It is quite obviuos that you have little or no contest experience as a
glider pilot. It is very bold of you to announce that Andy McQuigg is
an easy or conservative CD! This is my second nationals, and having
much more competition experience than you I reserve the right to call
you out on your accusations against the CD. If you think that you
know so much about national soaring competitions then I invite you to
soar with us and see how you do. I doubt that you will finish in the
top half of the score sheet. If you could even find the start
cylinder! When your Discus was at Perry I noticed that the gelcoat
was flaking off, I am not sure that it is airworthy and neither are
you! Oh and imagine that.... someone else was flying the Discus also,
not you!

972
p.s
I know of a glider refinishing businness that would do you and your
glider wonders.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Geesch, Mitch, I heard a rumor you were behaving rudely, so I've come
back into this den of weekend warriors, to see what was descending
upon you. Well, I came, I read, and all I can say is carry on Mitch,
and thanks to you and your mom for all the years of dedication and
contribution to soaring.
And having said that, like crap down the laundry chute, I'm gone! Tah,
Tah.

I think Mitch has asked a very interesting question. Now that the
Sports Class Nats are over, there were 49 landouts, give or take(by my
unscientific count -- correct me if I'm grossly wrong here), just a
few more than the 4 than Mitch was initially discussing. At the 2006
Standards in Uvalde (CD Charlie Spratt) there was only 1 landout.
From a surface view, it seems that the consistency of the weather is a
bigger factor in determining the number of landouts than the CD. The
weather in Uvalde was remarkably consistent, whereas it seems that it
got very difficult towards the end of the Sports contests.

As I'm headed to Italy shortly to fly in the junior championships, I
had hoped that a few people who have flown contests both domestically
and internationally would weigh in on this issue. I've been wondering
what to expect, and if my experience in US contests has prepared me
for European contests.

While I'm interested to hear what people have to say, I can't leave
this post with out commenting on the unfortunate posts of Kevin and
Corey. As a fellow member of the junior community, I was disappointed
to read inappropriate and not well thought out posts from you both.
As potential members of the '09 junior team, I had expected more of
you. As many people have stated, Mitch is a valuable member of the
soaring community and has been a champion of juniors throughout the
years. I too have benefited from his generosity -- in fact a great
deal of my experiences/successes can be in one way or another
attributed directly to him, or from people I have met through him.
His question was merely intended to generate conversation on the
differences between US and international tasks, and if we are really
preparing our pilots for competition on the international front.
Belittling responses full of personal attacks and name calling are
merely childish. In the future, please think carefully before you
throw stones. Doing so does nothing for the soaring community,
especially the juniors, or for the opinions others have of you.

Kathy Fosha

On Jun 25, 4:46 pm, Kathy wrote:
...
As I'm headed to Italy shortly to fly in the junior championships, I
had hoped that a few people who have flown contests both domestically
and internationally would weigh in on this issue. I've been wondering
what to expect, and if my experience in US contests has prepared me
for European contests.
...

Kathy Fosha

I haven't flown any contests but have followed them more or less
closely over the last few years. The last Junior Worlds in Hus Bos in
the UK saw 7 ATs between 159km & 372km and 2 TATs of the 2:30 - 3:00
variety (the last day's TAT was canceled) in the Standard Class. The
ATs where done by the winner in between 1:43h (159km) for the shortest
AT and 4:04h (372km) and 4:13h (348km) for the longest ATs. More
details he http://www.worldgliding2005.com

At the last Club Class Worlds in Vinion in Southern France they had,
IIRC, some 9 ATs between 291km and 499km and some 5 ATs between 1:30h
and 2:45h (apparently on the weaker days). The quickest AT was 315km
in 2:48h, the longest AT 499km in 5:25h by the respective winner. Two
more ATs took more than 4h by the winner, all results were achieved in
Standard Cirrus/Standard Libelle/Standard Jantar or similar. More
details he http://www.wgc2006.fr

I would say that on a halfway decent day at a Club Class Worlds you
would expect a 300 - 350km task that'll take you around 3 hours. That
compares to a US Sports Class National. However, a booming day will
get you 400 - 500km and flight times that will be well in excess of
5h, something that is probably not done at a US Sports Class National.
The other key difference I can see is that you are more likely to fly
ATs, the TATs that are so popular in the US seem to be used less at
Worlds, MATs (or whatever the FAI equivalent is) are not common at
all.

Also keep in mind that the last Club Class Worlds were flown over the
Southern French Alps, a mountain area that very often sees rapid
changes in conditions in a very small time/space frame and as such can
present very demanding flying conditions that are hard to compare to
e.g. Ohio. The upcoming Junior Worlds will probably be similarly
demanding even though the mountains are not as high as in the Southern
French Alps.

My two cents,

Markus Graeber

Regarding the post that I put up last week. I foolishly posted hearsay
regarding CD McQuigg's experience level. Below is copied email I
received from Mr. Clyde Taylor, the usual Contest Manager in Cordele,
GA. As I publicly cast doubt on Andy's experience as a Nationals CD, I
publicly offer my apology for posting ill-researched "facts". - Sarah
Kelly


From Clyde Talor:
With regard to your posting on RAS, I preface this reply with the fact
that I was Contest Manager at Cordele during the period 1991 thru
2006, that being my last year. I have known Andy McQuigg for more
than 20 years. He has CDed the annual contest at Cordele for 10-12 of
those years. Among those meets were the 1997 Standard Class
Nationals, the 2003 Open and 18-Meter Class Nationals, and a small
PW-5 Nationals one year. We will receive sanction approval soon for
both the 2008 Standard Class Nationals and the 2009 15M Nationals at
Cordele, with Andy as CD, of course. Andy is highly-experienced in
Southeastern soaring and as a CD, and your statement about his level
of experience and ability is, to me, a personal slight to him.
Indeed, given the vagaries of the weather, there have been numerous
years, including 1997, where, but for his expertise, dedication, and
persistence, there might not have been a successful contest at all.
It would be well for you to check your facts before posting this type
of misinformation on RAS.

I can't speak about the sports class nats, the challenges
in being a CD, or other issues mentioned in this thread,
but I will wholeheartedly defend Mitch against those
who criticize his willingness to lend EX to a handful
of young pilots, regardless of gender.

Since 2004, Mitch's glider, and his glider alone, has
allowed me to collect a nice array of badges/records/awards,
develop my XC skills, attend the previously mentioned
Perry camp, choose to obtain my CFIG, and befriend
numerous individuals across the country along the way.
I've been flying for nine years, and only in the last
month have I finally acquired my own 'baby.' If not
for Mitch, I would have missed out on countless experiences
and opportunities over the last few years that are
often only available to those with their own sailplane.

Unlike many pilots, who choose to let their gliders
sit at the gliderport while they are busy or unable
to fly, Mitch allowed me to borrow EX without a second's
thought while he was busy in Nav School. His parting
words were, 'Firstly, have fun. Next, come home safe.
Lastly, remember the glider can always be fixed. But
firstly, have fun.' Like Mitch, I will similarly make
my glider available to youth at my club when I am caught
up in med school. All of us should be aware of his
continued support of the soaring community and the
impact he's made singlehandedly on so many young pilots.


Kevin, your comment was absolutely unnecessary. It
is offensive not only to Mitch, but also to myself
and others who have 'made use' of the glider. This
is simply not the place to make such a highly personal,
public attack.

Sylvia
1UV/N810VE

I can't speak about the sports class nats, the challenges
in being a CD, or other issues mentioned in this thread,
but I will wholeheartedly defend Mitch against those
who criticize his willingness to lend EX to a handful
of young pilots, regardless of gender.

Since 2004, Mitch's glider, and his glider alone, has
allowed me to collect a nice array of badges/records/awards,
develop my XC skills, attend the previously mentioned
Perry camp, choose to obtain my CFIG, and befriend
numerous individuals across the country along the way.
I've been flying for nine years, and only in the last
month have I finally acquired my own 'baby.' If not
for Mitch, I would have missed out on countless experiences
and opportunities over the last few years that are
often only available to those with their own sailplane.

Unlike many pilots, who choose to let their gliders
sit at the gliderport while they are busy or unable
to fly, Mitch allowed me to borrow EX without a second's
thought while he was busy in Nav School. His parting
words were, 'Firstly, have fun. Next, come home safe.
Lastly, remember the glider can always be fixed. But
firstly, have fun.' Like Mitch, I will similarly make
my glider available to youth at my club when I am caught
up in med school. All of us should be aware of his
continued support of the soaring community and the
impact he's made singlehandedly on so many young pilots.


Kevin, your comment was absolutely unnecessary. It
is offensive not only to Mitch, but also to myself
and others who have 'made use' of the glider. This
is simply not the place to make such a highly personal,
public attack.

Sylvia
1UV/N810VE

I can understand everyone bashing Mitch for his critique
of the CD at the nationals. He invited it, and was
trying to spark some thoughts on why US pilots are
not consistently competitive on the international stage.
The attacks from Mr. Kevin Christner and Mr. Corey
Sullivan were something else entirely. I have only
known Mitch Hudson for a year, but I have found him
committed to giving youth opportunities that they would
not otherwise have in soaring. Mitch Hudson once threw
me the keys to his C-120 so that I could remain current
in tail wheel aircraft. He asked nothing in return.
Mitch has allowed my girlfriend to use his discus on
several occasions. He asked nothing in return.

Kevin: As a flight instructor, you should be above
personal attacks like this. That title implies that
you are a professional. Act like one. What kind of
example are you setting for your students?

Corey: Unless you are a flight instructor or A&P, you
should refrain from passing judgment on Mitch or his
glider. As someone whose signature is in his logbook,
I have no hesitation in saying that he is a very competent
pilot. Considering the fact that you are a Kolstad
Scholarship winner and a youth advisor to the SSA Youth
Committee, I am disappointed that you would publicly
mock a fellow pilot’s potential in contests or belittle
his efforts to promote the sport.

Kevin and Corey, you both owe Mitch Hudson an apology.
I only hope that since you were both “men” enough to
attack him in public you will have the maturity to
apologize in public as well.

Regards,

Hugh Grandstaff

(Tail number varies depending on what second hand tow
plane or glider I am borrowing)

My idea of professionalism, Hugh, is protecting juniors from someone
who, IMHO, does not have their best interests in mind. My experience
with as a junior, and the experience of others, with this individual,
has been extremely negative.

2c

On Jun 20, 12:15 am, Hugh Grandstaff
wrote:
I can understand everyone bashing Mitch for his critique
of the CD at the nationals. He invited it, and was
trying to spark some thoughts on why US pilots are
not consistently competitive on the international stage.
The attacks from Mr. Kevin Christner and Mr. Corey
Sullivan were something else entirely. I have only
known Mitch Hudson for a year, but I have found him
committed to giving youth opportunities that they would
not otherwise have in soaring. Mitch Hudson once threw
me the keys to his C-120 so that I could remain current
in tail wheel aircraft. He asked nothing in return.
Mitch has allowed my girlfriend to use his discus on
several occasions. He asked nothing in return.

Kevin: As a flight instructor, you should be above
personal attacks like this. That title implies that
you are a professional. Act like one. What kind of
example are you setting for your students?

Corey: Unless you are a flight instructor or A&P, you
should refrain from passing judgment on Mitch or his
glider. As someone whose signature is in his logbook,
I have no hesitation in saying that he is a very competent
pilot. Considering the fact that you are a Kolstad
Scholarship winner and a youth advisor to the SSA Youth
Committee, I am disappointed that you would publicly
mock a fellow pilot's potential in contests or belittle
his efforts to promote the sport.

Kevin and Corey, you both owe Mitch Hudson an apology.
I only hope that since you were both "men" enough to
attack him in public you will have the maturity to
apologize in public as well.

Regards,

Hugh Grandstaff

(Tail number varies depending on what second hand tow
plane or glider I am borrowing)

On Jun 20, 8:31 am, "
wrote:
My idea of professionalism, Hugh, is protecting juniors from someone
who, IMHO, does not have their best interests in mind. My experience
with as a junior, and the experience of others, with this individual,
has been extremely negative.

2c


Kevin,
If you truly do view yourself as a professional I would advise to
carefully consider the statements that you are making in a public
forum. As had been said before in this thread, Mitch (which he stated
himself) was trying to start some intelligent conversation regarding
the preparedness of our pilots to compete at the WGC level.

"Having flown all six of the contest days here, I can personally
assure
you that CD Andy McQuigg has done an outstanding job of calling tasks
that make the best use of the weather. The days have definitely not
been easy, with a number of pilots (including this one) having low
saves on final glides as the lift quit. The first three days we were
unable to start the launch before 1pm. If memory serves, three days
the task was changed in the air. It hasn't been easy. Day five and
six in particular really shook up the score sheet. "

The first paragraph that you wrote did provide some insight to the
conversation regarding an individuals (your's) experience at the
Sports Class Nationals.

"So rather than whining, why don't you go fly your glider... oh wait,
you don't even care about flying it... word is spreading about how
you make "use" of it - and I'm not the only one thats picked up. "

The second paragraph that you wrote is a slanderous remark, boarding
on libel, fueled by your own personal agenda and vendetta. Your
insinuations, which I shall not repeat here, are based on rumour,
hearsay, and have absolutely no solid footing in truth.

As a flight instructor, and as a professional, you need to hold
yourself to a higher standard. You need to change your idea of
professionalism, at the very least, to keeping what poorly founded
opinions you have confined to private conversation (if even that), as
opposed to spreading venomous remark on an internationally read
newsgroup.

Further more, Mitch's second post in this thread tried to direct the
conversation towards the rules and scoring system used here in the
USA. No where in this conversation has he made any comment that the
CD was not running the contest properly (Mitch fulled admitted in his
first post that being a CD is a thankless task, and that he was not
trying to draw a slew of flame for his remarks). He was trying to
start a conversation to field opinions regarding our selection
process, and the impact that our rules have on such.

Regards,
Orion Kingman
DV8