TIS (traffic information service)

We have had TIS in three of the planes in our partnership for a while
now. I consider it a safety of flight issue. When it is working the
number of unseen planes around you it displays is amazing. I really
don't want to fly without it at this point. Unfortunately is seems
that the data is not being sent more then 25% of the time, if that, in
the Seattle area. I'm aware of the issues of reception, and it's not
an equipment issue with three identical systems (GNS 430/GTX330) having
the same problems. I have spoken with the Center manager and he says
that if the radar is working, mode S and TIS data are working. I am
beginning to think that this is not true. Are you seeing the same
poor TIS data broadcast in your area? Does anyone have additional
information on the issue? I have spoken to AOPA and they are looking
into it. I've spoken with the avionics shop and they hear similar
complaints from other pilots. I've spoken with Garmin and they say
sales of the GTX 330 have fallen to nothing compared with what they had
been. There is no plan to replace our ASR 9 for a decade or so. We
should be able to count on TIS information being available in the
Seattle area for a long time to come. I'd like to see it working
reliably...

Thanks for the help,
Dave

In article .com,
wrote:

We have had TIS in three of the planes in our partnership for a while
now. I consider it a safety of flight issue. When it is working the
number of unseen planes around you it displays is amazing. I really
don't want to fly without it at this point. Unfortunately is seems
that the data is not being sent more then 25% of the time, if that, in
the Seattle area. I'm aware of the issues of reception, and it's not
an equipment issue with three identical systems (GNS 430/GTX330) having
the same problems. I have spoken with the Center manager and he says
that if the radar is working, mode S and TIS data are working. I am
beginning to think that this is not true. Are you seeing the same
poor TIS data broadcast in your area? Does anyone have additional
information on the issue? I have spoken to AOPA and they are looking
into it. I've spoken with the avionics shop and they hear similar
complaints from other pilots. I've spoken with Garmin and they say
sales of the GTX 330 have fallen to nothing compared with what they had
been. There is no plan to replace our ASR 9 for a decade or so. We
should be able to count on TIS information being available in the
Seattle area for a long time to come. I'd like to see it working
reliably...

With the current high fuel prices, less people are flying, hence you are
seeing less traffic. :-))

On 28 Aug 2006 07:31:54 -0700, wrote in
.com:

We have had TIS in three of the planes in our partnership for a while
now. I consider it a safety of flight issue. When it is working the
number of unseen planes around you it displays is amazing.

I didn't realize this was service was provided by the FAA:

http://www.tc.faa.gov/act310/projects/modes/tis.htm


AIM 4-4-16. Traffic Information Service (TIS)

a. TIS provides proximity warning only, to assist the pilot in the
visual acquisition of intruder aircraft. No recommended avoidance
maneuvers are provided nor authorized as a direct result of a TIS
intruder display or TIS alert. It is intended for use by aircraft
in which TCAS is not required.

b. TIS does not alter or diminish the pilot's basic authority and
responsibility to ensure safe flight. Since TIS does not respond
to aircraft which are not transponder equipped, aircraft with a
transponder failure, or aircraft out of radar coverage, TIS alone
does not ensure safe separation in every case.

c. At this time, no air traffic service nor handling is predicated
on the availability of TIS equipment in the aircraft.


http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pi...ction0108.html
A traffic information service (TIS) feature is also available.
This uses Bendix/King's $5,000 KT 73 datalink transponder to hook
up with air traffic control radar to depict nearby air traffic on
the KMD 550 or 850. TIS shows position, altitude, altitude trend,
and course information on up to eight target airplanes within a
chunk of airspace seven miles horizontally and 3,500 feet
vertically of the TIS-equipped airplane. TIS is currently
available from 80 FAA sites throughout the United States.

http://www.forecastinternational.com...rs/rs12814.htm

It looks like these folks are in charge of TIS:
http://www.tc.faa.gov/act310/Welcome.html

You can contact them he
http://www.tc.faa.gov/act310/staff/staff2.htm

To find out more information about the Mode S Surveillance
Program, contact:

Communication/Navigation/Surveillance
Engineering and Test Division
Surveillance Branch

Federal Aviation Administration
William J. Hughes Technical Center
Atlantic City International Airport, NJ 08405
Phone: (609) 485-5392
Fax : (609) 485-5995

I assume you are saying that your TIS goes into "coast mode" and stops
updating for a period of time. I've found the same to be the case in
the Sacramento area. Also, there are certainly holes in where coverage
is available. If I fly from Sacramento to the Bay Area I'll lose TIS
around Franklin Field and pick it up again near Concord. In general I
think my PCAS system is more reliable but it doesn't give direction.

-Robert


wrote:
We have had TIS in three of the planes in our partnership for a while
now. I consider it a safety of flight issue. When it is working the
number of unseen planes around you it displays is amazing. I really
don't want to fly without it at this point. Unfortunately is seems
that the data is not being sent more then 25% of the time, if that, in
the Seattle area. I'm aware of the issues of reception, and it's not
an equipment issue with three identical systems (GNS 430/GTX330) having
the same problems. I have spoken with the Center manager and he says
that if the radar is working, mode S and TIS data are working. I am
beginning to think that this is not true. Are you seeing the same
poor TIS data broadcast in your area? Does anyone have additional
information on the issue? I have spoken to AOPA and they are looking
into it. I've spoken with the avionics shop and they hear similar
complaints from other pilots. I've spoken with Garmin and they say
sales of the GTX 330 have fallen to nothing compared with what they had
been. There is no plan to replace our ASR 9 for a decade or so. We
should be able to count on TIS information being available in the
Seattle area for a long time to come. I'd like to see it working
reliably...

Thanks for the help,
Dave

("john smith" wrote)
With the current high fuel prices, less people are flying, hence you are
seeing less traffic. :-))


Hey, that's not funny!

We bought into our gateless community in 1998. We are less than two miles
from the end of 9/27. Small planes used to fly over the house all-the-time
.....it was WONDERFUL!

These days, we regularly have beautiful weekends, and --- nothing! We've
been "watching" this trend for a few years.


Montblack

wrote:
I've spoken with Garmin and they say
sales of the GTX 330 have fallen to nothing compared with what they had
been. There is no plan to replace our ASR 9 for a decade or so. We
should be able to count on TIS information being available in the
Seattle area for a long time to come. I'd like to see it working
reliably...


The reason that GTX330 sales are in the dumper is that the FAA
announced (last year) that they would not implement TIS in future radar
upgrades, as a cost saving measure. This indicates to a lot of buyers
that the FAA is not interesting in supporting the technology long term.

I can't say I'm surprised. I've flown some TIS equipped aircraft
and I think it's one of the best traffic avoidance technologies I've
seen since TCAS. It figures that the FAA would choose to implement
"cost savings" by deleting something that actually works and works
well.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

John Galban wrote:
wrote:

The reason that GTX330 sales are in the dumper is that the FAA
announced (last year) that they would not implement TIS in future radar
upgrades, as a cost saving measure. This indicates to a lot of buyers
that the FAA is not interesting in supporting the technology long term.

I can't say I'm surprised. I've flown some TIS equipped aircraft
and I think it's one of the best traffic avoidance technologies I've
seen since TCAS. It figures that the FAA would choose to implement
"cost savings" by deleting something that actually works and works
well.

ADS-B makes TIS obsolete. No reason for the FAA to invest in two
different technologies. ADS-B holds a better future.

-Robert

On 28 Aug 2006 15:00:29 -0700, "John Galban"
wrote in .com:


The reason that GTX330 sales are in the dumper is that the FAA
announced (last year) that they would not implement TIS in future radar
upgrades, as a cost saving measure. This indicates to a lot of buyers
that the FAA is not interesting in supporting the technology long term.

I can't say I'm surprised. I've flown some TIS equipped aircraft
and I think it's one of the best traffic avoidance technologies I've
seen since TCAS. It figures that the FAA would choose to implement
"cost savings" by deleting something that actually works and works
well.


Isn't the FAA committed to ADS-B? If so, isn't TIS-B likely to
replace TIS, or is TIS-B backwards compatible with TIS?

The FAA should be deploying ADS-B more agressively, so that people don't
continue to waste there money on transponders that are going to be obsolete
in 10 years.

Mike Schumann

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...

John Galban wrote:
wrote:

The reason that GTX330 sales are in the dumper is that the FAA
announced (last year) that they would not implement TIS in future radar
upgrades, as a cost saving measure. This indicates to a lot of buyers
that the FAA is not interesting in supporting the technology long term.

I can't say I'm surprised. I've flown some TIS equipped aircraft
and I think it's one of the best traffic avoidance technologies I've
seen since TCAS. It figures that the FAA would choose to implement
"cost savings" by deleting something that actually works and works
well.

ADS-B makes TIS obsolete. No reason for the FAA to invest in two
different technologies. ADS-B holds a better future.

-Robert

Mike Schumann wrote:
The FAA should be deploying ADS-B more agressively, so that people don't
continue to waste there money on transponders that are going to be obsolete
in 10 years.

The mode S transponders still have things to recommend them other than
TIS, though TIS was a major driving factor in my selecting one.