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new wingtip design



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 27th 15, 09:24 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
ND
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Posts: 310
Default new wingtip design

interesting article about a potential winglet replacement for jets.

I personally think that winglets have more sex appeal though, especially maughmer's.

http://www.gizmag.com/minix-wing-tip...ynamics/15526/
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  #2  
Old February 27th 15, 09:39 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathon May[_2_]
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Posts: 86
Default new wingtip design

At 20:24 27 February 2015, ND wrote:
interesting article about a potential winglet replacement for jets.

I personally think that winglets have more sex appeal though, especially
maughmer's.

http://www.gizmag.com/minix-wing-tip-vortex-aircraft-

aerodynamics/15526/

That's quite old ,has it moved on ?
Anything that improves performance is worth a try .And something that
makes it easier to fit the covers is a bonus.


  #3  
Old February 27th 15, 10:47 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
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Posts: 719
Default new wingtip design

It's an almost 5 year old article.

Never heard of it before, it was so good, we all would have likely heard more about it.

My understanding is the tip vortex is based mostly on wingloading, the higher the loading the worse the vortex is (everything else remaining the same).
Some airfoils & aspect ratio's are worse than others in terms of vortex with a similar wingloading. And yes, speed has an effect as well.

I would like to see the actual tests performed between a "plain tip", winglet and this device.
  #4  
Old February 27th 15, 11:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
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Posts: 719
Default new wingtip design

I did a Google search for "Minix wing tip"

Came up with....

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22M...sm=93&ie=UTF-8

This page (out of the 1st link) is sorta interesting (it's on page 3 of the above search).

http://www-mip.onera.fr/projets/Wake...Durston%5D.pdf

Most of the pages are old, the "newer ones" basically regurgitated the older info......

Curious on what others here think/feel/know......
  #5  
Old February 28th 15, 12:25 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bob Whelan[_3_]
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Posts: 379
Default new wingtip design

On 2/27/2015 3:20 PM, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
I did a Google search for "Minix wing tip"

Snip...


Curious on what others here think/feel/know......


Think/feel...
These sorts of things are what happens when intuition is applied inaptly, kind
of like those early schemes proposing ways for making balloons dirigible, i.e.
steerable...you know, oars and sails and the like. How does this magical
"unwinding" device go about capturing the entire pressure differential between
bottom & top of the wing so's to prevent vorticity developing? Methinks at the
very least a considerably larger bell-mouth is in order to have potential for
ANY detectable vortical disruption. :-)

Quite Possibly/Presumably In the "Know Dep't." (Copied from comments)
"I tested this device for my university thesis and it done nothing at all but
to increase drag due to the extra skin friction drag caused by a greater
surface area. The vortices do not reduce because the design considers the
physics on too primitive and intuitive a level."
James Fletcher
26th March, 2012 @ 01:58 pm PDT
  #6  
Old February 28th 15, 02:30 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Craig Funston
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Posts: 208
Default new wingtip design

On Friday, February 27, 2015 at 3:25:30 PM UTC-8, Bob Whelan wrote:
On 2/27/2015 3:20 PM, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
I did a Google search for "Minix wing tip"

Snip...


Curious on what others here think/feel/know......


Think/feel...
These sorts of things are what happens when intuition is applied inaptly, kind
of like those early schemes proposing ways for making balloons dirigible, i.e.
steerable...you know, oars and sails and the like. How does this magical
"unwinding" device go about capturing the entire pressure differential between
bottom & top of the wing so's to prevent vorticity developing? Methinks at the
very least a considerably larger bell-mouth is in order to have potential for
ANY detectable vortical disruption. :-)

Quite Possibly/Presumably In the "Know Dep't." (Copied from comments)
"I tested this device for my university thesis and it done nothing at all but
to increase drag due to the extra skin friction drag caused by a greater
surface area. The vortices do not reduce because the design considers the
physics on too primitive and intuitive a level."
James Fletcher
26th March, 2012 @ 01:58 pm PDT


Excellent discussion of "Common Misconceptions in Aerodyanmics" Worth the time to listen to the whole thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKCK...bn0iDCBbgpLbX6

Craig
  #7  
Old February 28th 15, 04:34 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
BobW
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Posts: 395
Default new wingtip design

On 2/27/2015 6:30 PM, Craig Funston wrote:
On Friday, February 27, 2015 at 3:25:30 PM UTC-8, Bob Whelan wrote:
On 2/27/2015 3:20 PM, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
I did a Google search for "Minix wing tip"

Snip...


Curious on what others here think/feel/know......


Think/feel... These sorts of things are what happens when intuition is
applied inaptly, kind of like those early schemes proposing ways for
making balloons dirigible, i.e. steerable...you know, oars and sails and
the like. How does this magical "unwinding" device go about capturing the
entire pressure differential between bottom & top of the wing so's to
prevent vorticity developing? Methinks at the very least a considerably
larger bell-mouth is in order to have potential for ANY detectable
vortical disruption. :-)

Quite Possibly/Presumably In the "Know Dep't." (Copied from comments) "I
tested this device for my university thesis and it done nothing at all
but to increase drag due to the extra skin friction drag caused by a
greater surface area. The vortices do not reduce because the design
considers the physics on too primitive and intuitive a level." James
Fletcher 26th March, 2012 @ 01:58 pm PDT


Excellent discussion of "Common Misconceptions in Aerodyanmics" Worth the
time to listen to the whole thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKCK...bn0iDCBbgpLbX6

Craig


Great lecture - wish I'd had more like this in collich!

The aero engineer in me is still laughing at: "It's easy to explain how a
rocket works, but explaining how a wing works takes a rocket scientist."
Making it even funnier is that I used the degree for the first 4 years after
school in the solid rocket motor industry, where "rocket scientist" jokes were
rife...and decades later, non-aerodynamiscist-me is still trying to refine my
understanding/explanation for lift and its generation! Considering sailplanes,
I'm presently a fan of: gravity causes lift - after that things become
complicated! :-)

Bob W.
  #8  
Old February 28th 15, 05:59 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Paul Villinski
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Posts: 52
Default new wingtip design

As a non-scientist/engineer, it baffles me that we are able to build amazingly sophisticated airplanes, yet, as the lecturer demonstrates, there is a huge amount of confusion over how to explain why a wing produces lift, and many of our common assumptions are simply wrong, i.e., the reason(s) for accelerated airflow over the top surface (which intuitively has never made sense to me). Engineers designing airplanes are themselves still arguing over whether it's more about Bernoulli or the downward-turning force or Coanda effect. Yet, I'm still able to get from one coast to another at 35,000 feet traveling at 600 mph, while sipping coffee and watching a movie.
  #9  
Old February 28th 15, 07:02 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 15
Default new wingtip design

I've been flying airplanes professionally for close to forty years and sailplanes for fun. I spend a lot of time looking at the wing trying to understand how it works. In the end, I conclude it's all magic. I kinda like that.
  #10  
Old February 28th 15, 10:54 AM
Skypilot Skypilot is offline
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First recorded activity by AviationBanter: Feb 2012
Posts: 26
Default

The biggest problem is trying to prove up the % saved. Then you have to convince the bean counters.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ND View Post
interesting article about a potential winglet replacement for jets.

I personally think that winglets have more sex appeal though, especially maughmer's.

http://www.gizmag.com/minix-wing-tip...ynamics/15526/
 




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