High wing to low wing converts...or, visa versa?

ShawnD2112 wrote:

The other qualities a Stearman has more than compensate for its visibility
problem! In the Pitts it doesn't really matter becuase it moves so fast
than anything that's blanked by a wing now will become very visible in just
a second...

Yes, kind of like a Harley. It makes up in noise for what it lacks in
other areas. :-)


Matt

OK..

I finally got this to happen in our 172..

Practising forced approaches...was too high, - dropped 40 deg
of flap, roled hte port wing down , and put my foot to the wall..

I pitched for 60 knts indicated, and about 3-4 seconds after
it stabiized, it started..

I would describe it as a gentle oscillation of the control
yoke fore & aft, perhaps 1 inch of amplitude, frequency about once
each second.

The pitch of the aircraft seemed quite stable, the oscillation
was in the control column only. It felt as if I was "alowing" the
movement to happen, to keep the pitch of the aircraft stable...

Very gentle,but might surprise someone not expecting it.

Relaxing the rudder only slightly stopped it...

Certianly not an issue as far as contolling the aircraft.

Remember, 40 deg, wing way down, foot all the way in, dropping
like an elevator before it started oscillating.

Recovery from the slip was instantaneous, I would not hesitate
to do it any time necessary...

Dave






On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 09:58:04 -0500, Dave Butler wrote:

jsmith wrote:
Check the C172 manual under EMERGENCY PROCEDURES.
Some models contain a caution/warning against slipping with 30 degrees
of flaps.

I'm quite sure newps knows that and was making the point that a caution/warning
does not a prohibition make.

Jim Rosinski wrote:
Hilton wrote:

turn). I still fly 172s (I really like flying them), but I'm extra
cautious
and sometimes move my shoulder harness off my shoulder and lean way
forward
to try peer around the corner.

I installed inertia-reel shoulder harnesses (BAS) in my 172 mainly for
comfort. But the ability to lean forward, particularly in the pattern
for visibility, was worth the price in itself.

I always assumed that inertia-reel harnesses were for comfort. You raise a
great point that it aids safety too; i.e. helps see-n-avoid if the pilot
makes the additional effort.

Thanks!

Hilton

jsmith wrote:
Two things to reduce "float" on landing...
1.) slow down
2.) after roundout, take out one notch of flaps while pulling the yoke
back to maintain pitch attitude.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no... Sorry, the complex CFI in me just kicked
in.

Hilton

"Jack Allison" wrote in message
news:csjun0$sr9

I'm wondering how many other
folks out there did their primary training with the wing on the top then
switched to flying (or even better, buying) one with the wing on the
bottom...or even the other way around? Any issues, likes/dislikes about
the transition?

Jack,

I have mostly flown C-172's, but have flown a Cherokee for a few hours.
Being so used to the Cessnas, it would be reasonable to think that flying
the Cherokee would be hard to get used to. I was pleasantly surprised to
find that I really liked it. Here are some random thoughts:

I like manual flaps, a lot. Once I flew an older C-172 that had manual flaps
and loved it. The Cherokee had manual flaps too. One major difference I
found is that when you lower flaps in the C-172, the nose goes up, but in
the Cherokee, the tail goes up.

The Cherokee had much rougher ride while taxiing, kind of wallowed and
rocked side to side. Also, a stiffer jolt on landing. Could be the pilot's
fault on that one.

My major gripe: The single door on the Cherokee. Couldn't stand it, but it's
not a deal breaker. I do have a concern about safety and egress. In CAP, we
practice egress from C-172's and C-182's. We can clear the plane with 4 pax
in about 13 seconds. In a single door plane this would be considerably
longer. Also, what if that one door was to jam in a crash? Sometimes those
doors don't seal so well either since they are much more complex than the
C-172's doors. A minor detail, but one that could get on your nerves and
wallet.

The Cherokee seemed to turn better than the C-172. I don't know exactly why,
but it just seemed to fly a little better and easier, a little crisper. More
natural coordination? Also, I liked the increased visibility while turning.

The Cherokee had a engine cowling that opened completely up so that I could
inspect the engine visually. I liked that a whole lot more than the little
inspection port on the C-172.

I like the thought of a gravity-fed fuel system rather than a pump system.
Also, there's no need to switch tanks on the C-172.

I like to fly for the scenic value and the C-172 has a better view of the
ground.

The cabin had a bigger feel in the C-172, but the instrument panel was lower
in the Cherokee.

Low wingers generally look better aesthetically, but high wingers stay
cooler in the summer because of the extra shade. The C-172's doors and
windows allow the cockpit to cool off quicker if it does get hot. As a
designer, I appreciate aesthetics, but I also appreciate functional design.
Functional designs are beautiful to me.

All in all, there's no clear winner for me. That been said, I think the high
wing scheme wins by a nose for me.

HTH,

-Trent
PP-ASEL

I think you qualify for the "slip with flaps" T-shirt Dave.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL, IA Student, Student Arrow Buyer

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

I like the high-wing for my fun flying since I can get better camera shots
on my trips of the scenery below, without that big wing in the way... Also,
I like the idea that the C172 has two doors to the Arrow III's (not counting
the 'emergency' baggage compartment door g) one door (which to me seems
pretty prone to getting stuck in an accident - Cessna doors you can wedge
open with a coat,,, not so sure that one can do that with an Arrow III.

By the way,,, congrats on getting ready to join the aircraft owners
'club'.... Someday, for me,,, for certain.... :0)
--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL-IA
Student - CP-ASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

Read TAKEOFFS AND LANDINGS by Leighton Collins.

jsmith wrote:
Two things to reduce "float" on landing...
1.) slow down
2.) after roundout, take out one notch of flaps while pulling the yoke
back to maintain pitch attitude.

Hilton wrote:
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no... Sorry, the complex CFI in me just kicked
in.

jsmith wrote:
Read TAKEOFFS AND LANDINGS by Leighton Collins.

Read ACCIDENTS by NTSB


jsmith wrote:
Two things to reduce "float" on landing...
1.) slow down
2.) after roundout, take out one notch of flaps while pulling the yoke
back to maintain pitch attitude.

Hilton wrote:
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no... Sorry, the complex CFI in me just
kicked
in.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh....

This one is gonna hurt sooner or later if the plane is a
retractable, big time!

Dave


On Thu, 20 Jan 2005 13:58:04 GMT, jsmith wrote:


2.) after roundout, take out one notch of flaps while pulling the yoke
back to maintain pitch attitude.