Draconian Club Checkrides?

I wanted to run this by everyone to see if I was being reasonable being
upset.

I started flying as a student in December, 2003. I joined a local
non-profit club to do my training and flew exclusively with them for
almost a year.

This includes approximately 50 hours of time in two C152s, including
12-15 hours of local solo time, night xc, night landings, etc.

When it came to the time where I was ready to solo xc my instructor kept
stalling, calling for more 'ground time' before I could do my stage
check, in what I believe was a combination of his inexperience and need
for a few bucks.

Anyhow, I ended up firing my CFI and completed my training at Stinson
Field in San Antonio (in C172s) while there on Air Force active duty
over the past two months. Past my written and my checkride on the first
try and now hold a full private pilot.

Now I'm back home and want to fly with the club. My last flight in the
152 with my old instructor was within 100 days or so as was my last solo
in that aircraft. I inquired about getting checked out in the clubs
C172 and they are saying two full lesson slots, probably 4 hours of
instructor time (including re-proving navigation ability) for the 172,
despite me having 14 hours in the last 60 days in a C172.

But that isn't the big kicker! They won't let me fly the C152s! They
want me to do a full checkout (2-3 hours minimum) in the VERY 152s I was
solo signed off on just 3 months prior! Doesn't this seem a little
ridiculous? They felt I was competent to fly them as a STUDENT after
the CFI said "go fly" but now that the FAA says I'm qualified to fly
without a CFI I have to do a 2-3 hour checkride in the exact same
airplane?

Does this make ANY sense to any of you? I can walk across the tarmac
and fly with the private FBO for almost the same price and they are
saying a single hour checkride for a current pilot!

Just really painful after paying monthly dues to the club for so long.
I mean, after I finished my PPL checkride at Stinson, they didn't then
say, "Well, you can fly after a checkride!"

--
Chris Schmelzer, MD
Capt, 110th Fighter Michigan ANG
University of Michigan Hospitals
Ann Arbor, MI

Hi Chris,

Club rules can be mystifying at times. I understand you're upset. I
belong to a club, and we also have strict rules about being checked out
again if we haven't flown the aircraft within 90 days, no matter how
much we may fly elsewhere. All the rules, even the mystifying ones,
are there for a reason though. Usually, a result of one specific
incident from the past and there to protect pilots and airplanes from
future repetitions.

That may or may not be the case with your club, but it's worth thinking
about.

My suggestion is to look at it like this: every flight with an
instructor is valuable. Why not go up and do something new with
him/her and challenge yourself with the lesson? You may find it pays
dividends down the road.

Best of luck to you, and congrats on that certificate!
Kay

Chris Schmelzer wrote:
Does this make ANY sense to any of you? I can walk across the tarmac
and fly with the private FBO for almost the same price and they are
saying a single hour checkride for a current pilot!

Just really painful after paying monthly dues to the club for so long.


I understand your reticence but I would leave that Mickey Mouse outfit behind
and rent from a real FBO. No dues. You only pay for what you actually do.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

Does this make ANY sense to any of you? I can walk across the tarmac
and fly with the private FBO for almost the same price and they are
saying a single hour checkride for a current pilot!

Why continue to screw around with a flying club that obviously doesn't have
your interests at heart?

Either fly the pants off the FBO planes, or buy yourself a nice little
Cherokee 140/Skyhawk/152. You'll be much happier.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Keeps the CFIs busy. I remember joining a local club to fly their J-3
after I got rid of the Aeronca. Since the club normally flew 172s I had
to checkout in a 172 with a senior club CFI and then check out in the
J-3 with the one CFI who was tailwheel certified (and not "senior").
However, they had the keys to the J-3 and I wanted them so I just did
what they said. After owning a Mooney for many years it was interesting
to fly the 172.BTW: The 172 checkout was almost an hour. The J-3
checkout was just 3 landings. This was about 3 years ago.

-Robert, CFI

Amen Mortimer!
I'd tell them to stick thier 152 where the sun doesn't shine. Like Mort
said rent for a regular FBO and pay for what you are getting, because it
sure sounds like you are getting ripped off. Really it sounds like they may
even be ****ed at you because you went somewhere else and finished. I
wouldn't give them a dime of my money.

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in message
om...
Chris Schmelzer wrote:
Does this make ANY sense to any of you? I can walk across the tarmac
and fly with the private FBO for almost the same price and they are
saying a single hour checkride for a current pilot!

Just really painful after paying monthly dues to the club for so long.


I understand your reticence but I would leave that Mickey Mouse outfit
behind and rent from a real FBO. No dues. You only pay for what you
actually do.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

In article om,
"Robert M. Gary" wrote:

Keeps the CFIs busy. I remember joining a local club to fly their J-3
after I got rid of the Aeronca. Since the club normally flew 172s I had
to checkout in a 172 with a senior club CFI and then check out in the
J-3 with the one CFI who was tailwheel certified (and not "senior").
However, they had the keys to the J-3 and I wanted them so I just did
what they said. After owning a Mooney for many years it was interesting
to fly the 172.BTW: The 172 checkout was almost an hour. The J-3
checkout was just 3 landings. This was about 3 years ago.

-Robert, CFI


The funny thing about it is when I went to the OTHER flight school it
was actually easier to get the key to the planes THERE than it was at my
original school/FBO!

The CFI's here are all very young, low hour types pretty fresh out of
school. The CFI's at Check-Six at Stinson are all VERY senior, my
particular instructor was in the mid-4xxx hour and the operations guy
was a former F-15 driver.

I think, like many things, experience lets you know what is important
and what isn't and allows you to go by feel as to who is a good stick
and who isn't. I don't think my local club has that ability due to
youth and inexperience!

--
Chris Schmelzer, MD
Capt, 110th Fighter Michigan ANG
University of Michigan Hospitals
Ann Arbor, MI

"Chris Schmelzer" wrote in message
...
[...]
Now I'm back home and want to fly with the club.

I was following you okay until I got to that sentence. Then, all I could
think was "huh?"

It sounds like you left the club for a good reason. Why'd you go back? And
now that it seems they are yanking your chain some more, why are you wasting
any emotional effort getting upset about it? Just find somewhere that
doesn't have silly check-out policies like they do. (And they ARE being
silly).

Pete

When I do a checkout I tell them in advance what is expected.
After the ground rules and rituals of renting are explained, we fly.
Normal, short field and x-wind take off and landing.
Stalls, slow flight and emergency landing proceedures.
I have done checkouts which have lasted more than an hour but most are
less than an hour.
If the person is close to the time a BFR is due, the checkout can be
tailored to meet the FAA requirements. This is all explained in
advance of the flight.
I agree it seems silly to have to be checked out everytime you rent
somewhere new.
You must realize they have to cover their rears. Their rational is
just because a person may have a current pilot certificate, medical,
and logged time in a perticular make and model does not always mean the
person is qualified to fly. Insurance requirements are not always the
same.
Use the checkout to hone your skills and show the CFI you are a pilot.
Fly like you are on a check ride with the D.E.

The problem is that you asking us,
when you should be asking them.

It is very possible that it is an insurance requirement - go talk to
them! Ask THEM why.
If you can't even talk to them, then you shouldn't be wanting to fly
with them.

Tony

--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE



In article ,
Chris Schmelzer wrote:

I wanted to run this by everyone to see if I was being reasonable being
upset.

I started flying as a student in December, 2003. I joined a local
non-profit club to do my training and flew exclusively with them for
almost a year.

This includes approximately 50 hours of time in two C152s, including
12-15 hours of local solo time, night xc, night landings, etc.

When it came to the time where I was ready to solo xc my instructor kept
stalling, calling for more 'ground time' before I could do my stage
check, in what I believe was a combination of his inexperience and need
for a few bucks.

Anyhow, I ended up firing my CFI and completed my training at Stinson
Field in San Antonio (in C172s) while there on Air Force active duty
over the past two months. Past my written and my checkride on the first
try and now hold a full private pilot.

Now I'm back home and want to fly with the club. My last flight in the
152 with my old instructor was within 100 days or so as was my last solo
in that aircraft. I inquired about getting checked out in the clubs
C172 and they are saying two full lesson slots, probably 4 hours of
instructor time (including re-proving navigation ability) for the 172,
despite me having 14 hours in the last 60 days in a C172.

But that isn't the big kicker! They won't let me fly the C152s! They
want me to do a full checkout (2-3 hours minimum) in the VERY 152s I was
solo signed off on just 3 months prior! Doesn't this seem a little
ridiculous? They felt I was competent to fly them as a STUDENT after
the CFI said "go fly" but now that the FAA says I'm qualified to fly
without a CFI I have to do a 2-3 hour checkride in the exact same
airplane?

Does this make ANY sense to any of you? I can walk across the tarmac
and fly with the private FBO for almost the same price and they are
saying a single hour checkride for a current pilot!

Just really painful after paying monthly dues to the club for so long.
I mean, after I finished my PPL checkride at Stinson, they didn't then
say, "Well, you can fly after a checkride!"