please stop bashing France

Gunnar wrote:

Could it be that we'l like for you to be of a higher standard than the
rest... ?

And how does a de facto policy of returning Saddam Hussein to power in
Iraq make for high standards?

The only moral justification for us ( that is the vestern world ) being
"better" than the rest is that we are in fact BETTER than the rest of the
world !
And better means higher standards in treatment, letter of the law etc.

Again, how does aiding the return of Saddam Hussein to Iraqi leadership
promote these high ideals?

Europe [and the UN] isn't doing this???

Well, you figure things out.

-- What "former" Iraqi despot still lives in Iraq (as far as we know)?

-- What former leadership has millions [perhaps billions] of dollars still
at their disposal in Iraq?

-- What former leadership party has large supplies of weaponry (possibly
even WMD) still available for use in Iraq?

-- What former leadership party has ruthless people, skilled in the use of
weaponry (and "attitude adjustment" techniques) still at their disposal
in Iraq?

-- What do you think members of a former Iraqi power structure will do when
US forces depart Iraq if all these resources are still available to them?

High standards of how the world should act won't help you come to a very
viable conclusion given these facts, and you might not like the answer
these facts point to, given your high minded policy demands.


SMH

lekomin inc wrote:

Stop calling "europeans" anybody living in Europe and not being british. I'm
Polish as a matter of fact and I hate using "Europe" and "France and
Germany" as synonyms. Actually if you take the number of countries for and
against Iraqi Freedom both the current 15 EU and the post-2004 enlargement
EU was FOR the US. The French the Germans and the Belgians are a funny bunch
of people that can make good food (except for the Germans of course..) but
they still live the lives of forgone colonial powers.
take care

Hey, you guys are "New Europe".

Chirac says you don't count!


SMH

"Chad Irby" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
"Pierre-Henri Baras" wrote:

Example please?? Apart from right and left wing extremist tablids,
you'll
find NO front page as outragous as some US papers were during the
french-bashing period.

Do you even *read* your own papers?


Don't worry for me, I read them!
But I'm still waiting for even the slightest example of french front page
articles crying out that "America is Evil", or that "America is the ennemy",
or some other dumb thing. No article tried being smart by listing american
military blunders, or by listing French products on the US market and
calling for their boycott. No TV footage showed bottles of Coke being
emptied in the gutter, and those showing a McDonalds being torn down refer
to the legal decision that condemned the man who did it (José Bové if you
want to look it up).
No TV hosts appeared on screen with a "I F*CK USA" on them. Apart from a
few satirical shows, no one on TV spent hours telling old/inaccurate/easy
French jokes.
No articles in our equivalents of the Washington Post or others were
insulting, spreading hatred.

Now the question is do you read *yours* because you sure need a lot of guts
to say that there was "yankee bashing" in France.
Pierre-Henri

"lekomin inc" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
Stop calling "europeans" anybody living in Europe and not being british.
I'm
Polish as a matter of fact and I hate using "Europe" and "France and
Germany" as synonyms.

don't worry mate, we feel the same way about you!

The French the Germans and the Belgians are a funny bunch
of people that can make good food (except for the Germans of course..) but
they still live the lives of forgone colonial powers.

and yet we (the 3 countries you mentionned) have 36% of the seats at the
European Parliament....you know the institution that's going to determine
the future of Poland in the EU...
You're so arrogant you could be French ;-)
Take care
Pierre-Henri

From: "Garrison Hilliard"

The French are even hated by themselves!

http://tinyurl.com/qm7a

Interesting article--and many of the other linked articles are quite
interesting, as well.

Here is an article by Clark S. Judge from a recent Policy Review that may be of
interest. It takes a look at US influence in the world and the reasons for
opposition to it from a very interesting angle. Title "Hegemony of the Heart":

http://www.policyreview.org/DEC01/judge.html

A few quotes to give you a sense of it:

"The great battle of the twentieth century was between freedom and
totalitarianism — an entirely political conflict. The great battle of the
twenty-first century may well be between the forces of creative destruction and
those of destructive preservation — much more a social and cultural conflict.
Americans will wonder, what have we done to be drawn into conflicts like the
present one? The answer is simple: Our example is the hope of those who are
striving and rising. We cannot escape this conflict by changing what we do in
foreign policy or other arenas of action, because in this arena our power
derives not from what we do but from who we are — and what we represent to
these new classes and those who oppose them.
****
"Yet like it or not, the world will not let us go. It might be said that in
country after country, those who are threatened on the top are seeking to
combine with those who are frustrated on the bottom against those who are
rising in the middle. We ask why they hate us, and the answer is that
“they� hate and fear so many people in their own countries for whom America
has become an emblem — and so far as they feel the same tug that these new
men and women feel, they hate themselves."


Chris Mark

"Pierre-Henri Baras" wrote:

"Chad Irby" a écrit dans le message de news:

Do you even *read* your own papers?

Don't worry for me, I read them!
But I'm still waiting for even the slightest example of french front page
articles crying out that "America is Evil", or that "America is the ennemy",
or some other dumb thing.

Find some similar "front page" articles in the mainstream American
press, first.

Et bloody cetera. Lots of accusations, no real evidence.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

"Chad Irby" a écrit dans le message de news:
.. .
"Pierre-Henri Baras" wrote:

"Chad Irby" a écrit dans le message de news:

Do you even *read* your own papers?

Don't worry for me, I read them!
But I'm still waiting for even the slightest example of french front
page
articles crying out that "America is Evil", or that "America is the
ennemy",
or some other dumb thing.

Find some similar "front page" articles in the mainstream American
press, first.

Et bloody cetera. Lots of accusations, no real evidence.

yeah, like the WMD in Iraq.......
(sorry, that one was easy!)

"Chad Irby" a écrit dans le message de news:
.. .
"Pierre-Henri Baras" wrote:

"Chad Irby" a écrit dans le message de news:

Do you even *read* your own papers?

Don't worry for me, I read them!
But I'm still waiting for even the slightest example of french front
page
articles crying out that "America is Evil", or that "America is the
ennemy",
or some other dumb thing.

Find some similar "front page" articles in the mainstream American
press, first.

I'll do that when you find French front pages reading "America is evil!".
OK? If I can research US papers, you can research french ones, right? They
all have English versions.



Et bloody cetera. Lots of accusations, no real evidence.

Evidence of what??? French bashing??? Are you kidding me???

Monday february 10th 2003 National Post article. Want me to give extracts of
it?
Sunday feb 9th. Thomas Friedman article in the NY Times.
the previous week in the NY Times Geoffrey Nunberg wrote a "French bashing
dictionnary".
George Will's articles in the Washington Post.
Feb 6th Bill O'Reilly's show on Fox asking people to email the French Embasy
with insults.
Feb 10th the Wall Street Journal called Jacques Chirac a "bald Joan of Arc
travestite" and a pygme.

Come on!

Pierre-Henri

"France, if you recall, has for years been excessively rude to US
tourists."

LOL poor kid ! Did people refuse to look at you or what ? If you are as
handsome as you can think correctly, then I wouldn't be surprised ppl
wouldn't want to take a look at you !

--
Guy Wastiaux
aka FauCon PoiLu
visit me @ http://guy.4002.org/
mail me @ faucon.Wastiaux @ laposte.net

In article ,
"Pierre-Henri Baras" wrote:

"Chad Irby" a écrit dans le message de news:

Et bloody cetera. Lots of accusations, no real evidence.

yeah, like the WMD in Iraq.......
(sorry, that one was easy!)

....and wrong.

Read the Kay report. Not the "press summaries," the actual report.

They had an ongoing program, materials, labs, and a lot of stockpiles we
haven't had a chance to even look at yet.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.