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#11




ASW19 Maximum Weight
On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 11:16:27 PM UTC7, Ouroboros wrote:
Dan: That makes sense. Thanks. We will definitely be looking for excess weight in the tail. Any idea where one might put such weight? Michael: I see the TN on Schliechers website, but the TCDS says that the max weight without water is the same for both ASW19 and ASW19b, so I don't think that will help me. Tom: Yes. This glider has a standard certificate. I find it hard to believe that a mistake like that could remain unchanged for so many years! It just might be a typo by the issuing FSDO (805 vs 895). Tom 
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#12




ASW19 Maximum Weight
On Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 2:20:44 AM UTC4, 2G wrote:
On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 11:16:27 PM UTC7, Ouroboros wrote: Dan: That makes sense. Thanks. We will definitely be looking for excess weight in the tail. Any idea where one might put such weight? Michael: I see the TN on Schliechers website, but the TCDS says that the max weight without water is the same for both ASW19 and ASW19b, so I don't think that will help me. Tom: Yes. This glider has a standard certificate. I find it hard to believe that a mistake like that could remain unchanged for so many years! It just might be a typo by the issuing FSDO (805 vs 895). Tom From TCDSs for ASW19/ASW19B, EASA max weight dry: 805 lbs for both. Transport Canada max weight dry: 805 lbs for both. BGA max weight dry: 805 lbs for both. With FAA, that would be 8 typos  4 per 19, 4 per 19B... Therefore, not an FAA typo. As for where weight might be, from BGA TCDS: "Up to 7 Kg of nose weights may be fitted. 1 Kg of nose weight is equivalent to 2.5 Kg of cockpit weight". BGA gives weight of nonlifting parts ("everything except wings") as 507 lbs. When you weigh for new CofG, weigh that. It should give an idea of whether repair added a bunch of weight  the fuselage and tail are easy to weigh. 
#13




ASW19 Maximum Weight
Off topic a bit but there is a Pegasus for sale on W&W for a very reasonable price. Depending on who you ask, similar and every bit as nice as a 19 and it likely has a higher max gross. The 3000 hour thing is no longer an issue. If I didn't already have a Peg, I'd be looking very seriously at this one. I'm just sayin'.

#14




ASW19 Maximum Weight
Quite possibly an estate sale from our club.
Yes, nice ship. No, not crashed. Separate issue, but worth looking at. 
#15




ASW19 Maximum Weight
On Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 4:57:59 AM UTC7, Dan Daly wrote:
On Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 2:20:44 AM UTC4, 2G wrote: On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 11:16:27 PM UTC7, Ouroboros wrote: Dan: That makes sense. Thanks. We will definitely be looking for excess weight in the tail. Any idea where one might put such weight? Michael: I see the TN on Schliechers website, but the TCDS says that the max weight without water is the same for both ASW19 and ASW19b, so I don't think that will help me. Tom: Yes. This glider has a standard certificate. I find it hard to believe that a mistake like that could remain unchanged for so many years! It just might be a typo by the issuing FSDO (805 vs 895). Tom From TCDSs for ASW19/ASW19B, EASA max weight dry: 805 lbs for both. Transport Canada max weight dry: 805 lbs for both. BGA max weight dry: 805 lbs for both. With FAA, that would be 8 typos  4 per 19, 4 per 19B... Therefore, not an FAA typo. As for where weight might be, from BGA TCDS: "Up to 7 Kg of nose weights may be fitted. 1 Kg of nose weight is equivalent to 2.5 Kg of cockpit weight". BGA gives weight of nonlifting parts ("everything except wings") as 507 lbs. When you weigh for new CofG, weigh that. It should give an idea of whether repair added a bunch of weight  the fuselage and tail are easy to weigh. Then, WHY does this differ so much from the manufacturer's, Schleicher's, published weights? Tom 
#16




ASW19 Maximum Weight
On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 2:32:29 PM UTC7, Ouroboros wrote:
Hello. I'm looking for a sailplane with my partner and we've come across a very nice ASW19 that we are interested in. The aircraft has a maximum pilot weight of 196 pounds, which my partner just barely squeaks under with a parachute and will probably be over with drinking water and any other baggage. After reviewing the weight and balance documents, we noticed they were using 805 pounds as the max gross weight, but the manual states 899 pounds.. Further digging turned up the type certificate data sheet, which also shows 805 pounds as the maximum weight without water. Does anyone know why the FAA certified the aircraft with a lower max gross weight than stated in the manual? How are other owners dealing with this? If we took the glider experimental, would we be able to use the maximum gross number in the manual instead of the type certificate? You don't sat where you or the glider is. There is a pretty good Schleicher dealer (Williams Soaring) in the USA, call 'em up. If needed pay them to help you with a prebuy questions and review of the log books etc. if needed. If the aircraft s anywhere near them get a W&B and prebuy inspection done there. With any doubt about W&B and past repairs, get a prebuy W&B as well as inspection done, ideally with future owners in the cockpit. 
#17




ASW19 Maximum Weight
On Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 9:36:31 PM UTC6, 2G wrote:
On Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 4:57:59 AM UTC7, Dan Daly wrote: On Tuesday, October 16, 2018 at 2:20:44 AM UTC4, 2G wrote: On Monday, October 15, 2018 at 11:16:27 PM UTC7, Ouroboros wrote: Dan: That makes sense. Thanks. We will definitely be looking for excess weight in the tail. Any idea where one might put such weight? Michael: I see the TN on Schliechers website, but the TCDS says that the max weight without water is the same for both ASW19 and ASW19b, so I don't think that will help me. Tom: Yes. This glider has a standard certificate. I find it hard to believe that a mistake like that could remain unchanged for so many years! It just might be a typo by the issuing FSDO (805 vs 895). Tom From TCDSs for ASW19/ASW19B, EASA max weight dry: 805 lbs for both. Transport Canada max weight dry: 805 lbs for both. BGA max weight dry: 805 lbs for both. With FAA, that would be 8 typos  4 per 19, 4 per 19B... Therefore, not an FAA typo. As for where weight might be, from BGA TCDS: "Up to 7 Kg of nose weights may be fitted. 1 Kg of nose weight is equivalent to 2.5 Kg of cockpit weight". BGA gives weight of nonlifting parts ("everything except wings") as 507 lbs. When you weigh for new CofG, weigh that. It should give an idea of whether repair added a bunch of weight  the fuselage and tail are easy to weigh. Then, WHY does this differ so much from the manufacturer's, Schleicher's, published weights? Tom My club once looked into a used ASW19(B IIRC). Discovered that the original, generous factory stated payload was without instruments. As we went over the glider, we could figure out the weights of the panel, O2, but couldn't figure out the last 10 lb 'gain'. Since our requirement was for a useful pilot/chute load of 235lbs, we passed on the purchase. Interesting to hear about the nose weight option. We missed that, if installed. We figured there may have been 10 lbs of lead in the tail but didn't remove the rudder to check. Nothing in the log books about either. We bought an LS4a. Frank 
#18




ASW19 Maximum Weight
My ASW19's 10lb tail weight is clearly visible with the horizontal stab off. No need to remove the rudder just to see if weight has been installed.
Paul A. 
#19




ASW19 Maximum Weight
Yes, some ships have an easily removable tail weight, normally top of fin easy to see with horizontal tail off..
There may be weight at the vertical spar not seen without removing the rudder. As to easy to see/remove tail weight, I am a skinny SOB, I have to eyeball fixed ballast for the craft owner (he has me by maybe 50lbs.....). 
#20




ASW19 Maximum Weight
I'd also like to know why this 805 pound dry weight limit isn't mentioned in the manual. I've now seen three other weight and balance calculations for ASW19s and none of them compare dry loaded weights to 805 pounds, even though that would be the limiting factor for their max pilot weights.
Kind of ticks me off that such an important number isn't in the manufacturers documentation. 
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