"Cluster bombs called 'war crime'"

On Sat, 24 Jan 2004 22:59:31 -0500, "Mike Yared"
wrote:

Cluster bombs called 'war crime'
Britain's use of cluster bombs in Iraq, similar to the ones used by the
United States military, is a "war crime" and should be referred to the
International Criminal Court (ICC) for prosecution, academics, lawyers and
human rights activists in London said earlier this week.
at http://www.washtimes.com/world/20040...3737-4342r.htm

Why did the lawyers not sue Saddam Hussein first? Or the late Soviet leaders
for the the Soviet Union's 1956 Invasion of Hungary? the 1968 Invasion of
Czechoslovakia; and the 1979 invasion of Afghanistan? Will the late Yuri
Andropov and Leonid Brezhnev be labeled as war criminals in historical
terms?


Well, you should check out the full article-- this is a group of
people, who seem to have little credibility-- even Human Rights watch
isn't in their corner.

Honestly, with a very few exceptonis (Chemical and Biological, and
strategic nukes), as I understand it, the manner of hte use of the
weapon is what defines whether or not it is a warcrime.
Using a cluster bomb on a infantry column is fine. Using one one a
group of peacefully demonstrating civilians is a crime.
They also rather miss the point that while yes, a Cluster bomb will
kill over a larger area, in some cases it can actually be less
dangerous to civilians than an ordinary bomb-- if you have a group of
people in a building that is in the AOE of a cluster bomb most damage
will be restricted to the facade and outer doors-- if you accidently
or on purpose drop a 500/1000lb bomb next to it, damage is likely to
reach...considerably further inside.

"John Mullen" wrote in message
...
Ragnar wrote:

"Mike Yared" wrote in message
...


Why did the lawyers not sue Saddam Hussein first? Or the late Soviet

leaders

for the the Soviet Union's 1956 Invasion of Hungary? the 1968 Invasion
of
Czechoslovakia; and the 1979 invasion of Afghanistan? Will the late Yuri
Andropov and Leonid Brezhnev be labeled as war criminals in historical
terms?


The lefties involved in these cases don't sue guys like Stalin because
they
know what he would do to them. Its easier and more profitable to whine
about the USA because they know they can get away with it.


Stalin is dead.

Thank you Captain Obvious. I'm sure other readers caught the point without
being an ass.

Where did the US "carpet bomb" in Vietnam? Tactical strikes in the
South were always FAC control.

Likely he's referring to Arc Light.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

I've seen the term "carpet bombing" bandied about for years. I've never seen or
heard a definition. Is there one? A generally accepted one?

I think of it as area bombing. The ultimate example would be the March
10, 1945, fire bombing of Tokyo. Though that was incendiary rather
than high explosive, it was planned to cover whole square miles of a
city.

Bombing the rain forest, as the B-52s did in Vietnam, is a bit of a
stretch but would probably qualify since the intention wasn't to hit
any specific thing on the ground, but to make areas of the ground
uninhabitable.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

How many soldiers did you kill with the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima
and Nagasaki?

I didn't kill any, being but a slip of a boy at the time, but the
likelihood at Hiroshima is that 20,000 soldiers and Korean forced
laborers were killed. At a guess, then, nearly a division's worth was
destroyed, not a bad day's work, especially considering that Hiroshima
was the headquarters of Second General Army (the equivalent of a
"command" in today's U.S. military).

Soldiers and Koreans were the two categories of people not on the rice
ration, so it is not easy to account for them, and the first estimates
of deaths simply omitted them.

See www.warbirdforum.com/hirodead.htm



all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
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Rubbish. Soldiers have a duty to "die for their country". Innocent civilians
don't.

Somehow I doubt that anyone who could write these words ever served in
the military, in war or peace. When I carried a rifle for the U.S.
Army, I was an innocent as any civilian--more innocent than many.

What I hear speaking is someone who knows that he never was and never
will be sent in harm's way.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

By that criteria, I'll still say little or no "carpet bombing" in SEA.

Using your definition I'd agre as well. My definition didn't address
discriminate versus indiscriminate since I don't believe the USAF or its
predecessor the USAAF ever bombed indiscriminately. "Saturation bombing" was
necessary to achieve the desired .pd on the designated target due to the poor
bombing accuracy. No USAAF crew was ever sent out during WW II and told to;
"just drop your weapons where ever".

a B-52 bomb string covers some ground, but Arc Light
missions were specific targets and virtually always jungle areas, not
cities or villages.

However, they were striking general areas. The target may have been specific,
but it was specific in regards to general area.

Does that make sense? Did I type that correctly?


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Yes, the use of nuclear weapons is a war crime.

It wasn't at the time, which is what counts. Ex post facto, and all that.


Nuclear weapons, now (26 JAN 04) *are not* out lawed by Geneva or any other
Laws of Armed Conflict. Unlike their more abundant counterparts like Chemical
Weapons and Biological Weapons, Nuclear weapons *are* legal.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Does one of the last major IJ Naval bases, and an army division with
headquarters count?

The role of Second General Army at Hiroshima is often misunderstood.
It was created when the likelihood of invasion loomed.

First General Army was responsible for most of Honshu (the large
island, including Tokyo and the Kanto Plain) and the northern islands.
Second General Army was responsible for southern Honshu (thus its
location at Hiroshima) and the southern islands, notably Kyushu, where
the Americans planned and the Japanese expected the invasion to land.

This was not merely a division headquarters, nor even the hq of an
area army or a corps. It was responsible for millions of men,
including the upwards of 600,000 who would meet the Americans on the
beaches of Kyushu.

all the best -- Dan Ford
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see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

I didn't say anything is better than nuclear. I said that bombing a civilian
target with a nuke and killing thousands of civilians is a war crime. Do you
understand now?

I don't, no. Is killing thousands of civilians with incendiaries or
high explosives not a war crime?

What about killing thousands of civilians with the bayonet and
machine-gun?

What about killing thousands of civilians by starving them to death?

55 million people died in World War II. By your definition, the only
deaths not accountable as war crimes was the soldiers (poor bloody
soldiers) and those who died in retail numbers (i.e. in batches of
less than multi-thousands).



all the best -- Dan Ford
email:

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
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