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Landout at Class C or D tower-controlled airport?



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 31st 20, 01:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Landout at Class C or D tower-controlled airport?

If you ask to land on a taxiway, volunteer that it's "at my own risk". On an apron, too - that sounds especially dicey unléss you've got it all scoped out prior to the flight.
  #12  
Old May 31st 20, 03:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Landout at Class C or D tower-controlled airport?

I've done it with an interested, adaptable controller at a not too busy class D.

Communicate. Try to give the controller a chance to work you in. If he's running patterns on the South side of the runway, I wonder if he'd let you come in close on the North side so you are close when he duck in to land. He's not going to be used to sequencing gliders, so you might get some latitude if you can provide a clear safe plan that works with his flow. He may ask, but he's not going to make you try to violate physics ('say unable') if there's a way.

Once he gives you his runway, don't waste time, get down quick, and behind the hold short line. Once I figured out I had put 2 airplanes waiting, I came in at 100knots, landed at the chosen exit after he changed the exit while I was rolling, got out in 20 seconds and cleared the hold short in another 20. Still probably had the runway for 5 minutes which is a long time.

Be sure to say thank you and carry a short tow rope so you can clear the ramp with help.
  #13  
Old May 31st 20, 04:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Landout at Class C or D tower-controlled airport?

On Saturday, May 30, 2020 at 8:36:57 PM UTC-4, Roy B. wrote:
I have had lots of experience with this flying gliders in New England where there is much controlled airspace. I have found that a lot depends on whether you sound (on the radio) like you know what you are doing. If you do, they seem to take the glider traffic in stride. If you sound like you are in crisis mode they will help you - but you are not welcome there as they will likely disrupt all the other traffic to get you in.

A crisp professional initial call up indicating that you have the most recent ATIS information and a statement that you "can follow their traffic" (meaning you don't have to cut in front of somebody) goes a long way toward making you welcome.

Don't ask the tower for anything that might put them "on the spot" (like asking to land in the grass or on a taxi way) and do your utmost to roll clear of the active runway.

Transiting class C airspace with a transponder is now much easier because they will usually let you keep the 1202 code and you don't have to fumble with a new one.

My two favorite experiences were at Aspen CO being sandwiched between a Lear 35 ahead of me in the pattern and a Dash-8 behind me, and at Lebanon NH when we had to land on long distance ferry flight. Both the tug and the glider landed - and they let us launch again out of there.
Great guys in both places.
ROY


Many years ago when I got my first glider, and before I had much XC experience, I landed out at a towered airport on my 3rd or 4th flight. A far-away thunderstorm, unbeknownst to me, shut down the lift over a wide area, and I didn't have the smarts to head back to home field while I still had the altitude (9000 AGL!). Instead I searched in vain for lift near this towered airport. As I descended down the "cone of confusion" closer to the airport, I called the tower on the radio. They heard me once, but afterwards the ancient radio (or battery?) died. Since they knew I was there, and there was no traffic, I kept on searching for lift (not in the approach path of the active runway), but eventually had to land. Chose the inactive runway to stay out of the way of the nonexistent traffic. Better yet, I thought, I can land on the grass along that runway, and really be out of their way. After touchdown, the intersection with the active runway, and lights alongside it, seemed to come up fast. With lots of wheel brake I stopped a few feet before those lights. Turned out that grass strip was 800 feet long, and I wasn't yet practiced in short landings in that glider. After that I walked to the tower and had a chat with the controllers, no problem. Later got an aero-retrieve out of there. Moral of the story: land on the runway!
  #14  
Old May 31st 20, 05:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Landout at Class C or D tower-controlled airport?

Also moral of the story, learn to land your bird in 800 ft if it is capable.
Dan
  #15  
Old May 31st 20, 07:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Landout at Class C or D tower-controlled airport?

On Saturday, May 30, 2020 at 12:47:41 PM UTC-7, Charles Ethridge wrote:
Hi all.

I've done thousands of landings in all kinds of airplanes at tower-controlled airports (now called Class B, C and D), but I've never seen a glider land at one.

Does ATC frown upon this (unless one declares an emergency in which case you have a new problem) or to they take this in stride and accommodate us gliders as an unusual but accepted part of their workday?

Faced with the choice of this or a field, what would insurance say if I broke the glider landing in the field? Might insurance deny my claim since there was a perfectly good tower-controlled airport within gliding distance?

If this is an accepted practice at tower-controlled fields, how do you get the glider off the taxiway? Do they have an FBO come out and tow you off?

Ben


It depends. Another pilot and I landed a N4D at Twin Falls International. They just asked us to back taxi (push) on the active to the taxiway and contact ground. Ground just had us push to the tie downs.
  #16  
Old May 31st 20, 11:34 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Landout at Class C or D tower-controlled airport?

Most controllers are ignorant of what you are capable of. Consequently, if you can suggest a plan, they will likely usse it. This requires you to know your man/machine capabilities and what is transpiring in the airport environment.

.. Consult ASOS and monitor tower/approach to get the picture. Start listening and communicating early so you maximize your flexibility and to develop the best solution for everyone. If you are even remotely likely to land there, establish comm’s. Knowing the local winds may help you climb away.

As has been stated, when cleared to land, expedite and clear the active ASAP. Landing or taxiing on the grass infields is a poor choice. That level-appearing grass is likely to hide many hazards like ditches and runway markers. Wait at the hold-short for further instructions. Tell Tower/Ground what you need and are capable of. A tow rope is extremely valuable. Ensure that the rope longer than the ship’s wingspan! Don’t leave the ship unattended until secure.

Don’t be a burden and be good guest. Thank everyone repeatedly for their assistance.
  #17  
Old June 1st 20, 12:44 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Landout at Class C or D tower-controlled airport?


Ensure that the rope longer than the ship’s wingspan!


That's a good point, the nice ground guy driving the pickup has likely never towed a glider before. There was a scary moment which a longer rope would have helped.
  #18  
Old June 1st 20, 01:09 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andrzej Kobus
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Default Landout at Class C or D tower-controlled airport?

On Saturday, May 30, 2020 at 3:47:41 PM UTC-4, Charles Ethridge wrote:
Hi all.

I've done thousands of landings in all kinds of airplanes at tower-controlled airports (now called Class B, C and D), but I've never seen a glider land at one.

Does ATC frown upon this (unless one declares an emergency in which case you have a new problem) or to they take this in stride and accommodate us gliders as an unusual but accepted part of their workday?

Faced with the choice of this or a field, what would insurance say if I broke the glider landing in the field? Might insurance deny my claim since there was a perfectly good tower-controlled airport within gliding distance?

If this is an accepted practice at tower-controlled fields, how do you get the glider off the taxiway? Do they have an FBO come out and tow you off?

Ben


Worth noting thing have changed in 2020:

The FAA requires ADS-B Out capability in the continental United States, in the ADS-B rule airspace designated by FAR 91.225:

Class A, B, and C airspace;
Class E airspace at or above 10,000 feet msl, excluding airspace at and below 2,500 feet agl;
Within 30 nautical miles of a Class B primary airport (the Mode C veil);
Above the ceiling and within the lateral boundaries of Class B or Class C airspace up to 10,000 feet;
Class E airspace over the Gulf of Mexico, at and above 3,000 feet msl, within 12 nm of the U.S. coast.
  #19  
Old June 1st 20, 01:44 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Landout at Class C or D tower-controlled airport?

Towing a glider with a rope less than the wingspan (plus some) is asking damage, even with experienced crew. Downhill, sudden stops, too fast. No room for error with a short rope.
  #20  
Old June 1st 20, 04:40 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Landout at Class C or D tower-controlled airport?

Seems like nowadays, the best place to land a glider at a Class B airport would be in the farther reaches of a long-term car parking lot. Would there be enough space between the light poles for a 15M ship?
 




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