Ferry flight a commercial op?

Our flying club sold our PA32R Lance because very few people were flying
it. As one of that few, I offered to ferry it out to the buyer. A CFI in
the club said I can't, because it's a commercial operation, even though
I'm not getting paid. Is he right?

--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
The WWW is exciting because Microsoft doesn't own it, and therefore,
there's a tremendous amount of innovation happening.
-- Steve Jobs

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...

Our flying club sold our PA32R Lance because very few people were flying
it. As one of that few, I offered to ferry it out to the buyer. A CFI in
the club said I can't, because it's a commercial operation, even though
I'm not getting paid. Is he right?


Will you use the ferry time to qualify for another rating?

(Paul Tomblin) wrote in
:

Our flying club sold our PA32R Lance because very few people were
flying it. As one of that few, I offered to ferry it out to the
buyer. A CFI in the club said I can't, because it's a commercial
operation, even though I'm not getting paid. Is he right?


No. unless someone else is getting paid. If you were flying for a
commercial operator, for instance.

He's probably just jealous since he'll be going around in circles while
you;re doing it.


Bertie

Paul Tomblin wrote:
because it's a commercial operation,

Maybe he thinks

Sales = Commerce

?

--
Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com

In a previous article, "Steven P. McNicoll" said:
"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...

Our flying club sold our PA32R Lance because very few people were flying
it. As one of that few, I offered to ferry it out to the buyer. A CFI in
the club said I can't, because it's a commercial operation, even though
I'm not getting paid. Is he right?


Will you use the ferry time to qualify for another rating?

No. I have no current plans to get a commercial or CFI rating.


--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
Quality Control, n.:
The process of testing one out of every 1,000 units coming off
a production line to make sure that at least one out of 100 works.

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...

No. I have no current plans to get a commercial or CFI rating.


Then it's not a commercial operation.

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
Our flying club sold our PA32R Lance because very few people were flying
it. As one of that few, I offered to ferry it out to the buyer. A CFI in
the club said I can't, because it's a commercial operation, even though
I'm not getting paid. Is he right?

It seems to me that he's only right to the extent that if the transaction
was reversed, ie, you were buying the plane rather than selling it, it would
be a commercial transaction.

That suggests that you also can't buy an airplane and fly it away because
it's a "commercial operation." Personally, I think you'd have to screw up
in a lot of ways before the FAA started looking with that much scrutiny.
Why should a private club have to hire a commercial pilot to sell an
airplane? Do people actually do that?

Has anybody here -ever- seen any legal trouble over something like this?

-c
commercial and still confused.

"Gatt" wrote in
:


"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
Our flying club sold our PA32R Lance because very few people were
flying it. As one of that few, I offered to ferry it out to the
buyer. A CFI in the club said I can't, because it's a commercial
operation, even though I'm not getting paid. Is he right?

It seems to me that he's only right to the extent that if the
transaction was reversed, ie, you were buying the plane rather than
selling it, it would be a commercial transaction.

That suggests that you also can't buy an airplane and fly it away
because it's a "commercial operation." Personally, I think you'd
have to screw up in a lot of ways before the FAA started looking with
that much scrutiny. Why should a private club have to hire a
commercial pilot to sell an airplane? Do people actually do that?


Only for convienience.


Has anybody here -ever- seen any legal trouble over something like
this?


Doubt it. I used to ferry commercially, but I was paid. The CFI that said
that is talking out of his ass.


Bertie

"Gatt" wrote in message
...

It seems to me that he's only right to the extent that if the transaction
was reversed, ie, you were buying the plane rather than selling it, it
would be a commercial transaction.

That suggests that you also can't buy an airplane and fly it away because
it's a "commercial operation." Personally, I think you'd have to screw
up in a lot of ways before the FAA started looking with that much
scrutiny. Why should a private club have to hire a commercial pilot to
sell an airplane? Do people actually do that?

Has anybody here -ever- seen any legal trouble over something like this?


Something like ten years ago, maybe more, there was a case that involved a
skydiving club. One of the members was also a private pilot and volunteered
to fly the jump plane. He thought it a great way to build free time towards
his commercial. Since he was using the time towards another rating it was
deemed to be compensation since he'd otherwise have to pay for it and the
flights were a commercial operation.

The FAA can interpret you logging the flight time as compensation and as
such the CFI is correct. I've actually had a long chat with AOPA on
this subject. I manage a light sport flight school and most of my staff
are age 60+ and don't carry medicals. They'd need a second class one to
ferry a plane if we paid them for their time. If they volunteer their
time though, it gets gray. AOPA is pretty certain though we're OK
letting them ferry planes as volunteers though just for the simple fact
that the FAA would have a hard time making a case that a 68 year old
40,000 hour pilot, really considered the .5 of hobbs time as
compensation he could use for his up and coming career.

Assuming you aren't age 68 with 40,000 hours, you should probably avoid
the ferry duty.

Helen


Paul Tomblin wrote:
Our flying club sold our PA32R Lance because very few people were flying
it. As one of that few, I offered to ferry it out to the buyer. A CFI in
the club said I can't, because it's a commercial operation, even though
I'm not getting paid. Is he right?