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Future of aviation, or flash in the pan??



 
 
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  #21  
Old January 27th 20, 03:29 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Emir Sherbi
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Posts: 64
Default Future of aviation, or flash in the pan??

If you step by the SSA convention you will see one
  #22  
Old January 27th 20, 03:41 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kinsell
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Posts: 546
Default Future of aviation, or flash in the pan??

On 1/25/20 9:16 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Emir Sherbi wrote on 1/25/2020 8:07 PM:
When you have so much battery capacity. You have a lot power to spare
(discharging or charging). If they use the full capacity in two hours
without counting the reserve the rate of discharge is 0,5C. And the
chare rate is 1C. That is not much workload for most of the popular
cells. But you need a extremely big super charger.

Yes, for example, some of the Teslas can "take about 20 minutes to
charge to 50%, 40 minutes to charge to 80%, and 75 minutes to 100% on
the original 85 kWh Model S".


For fast charging, a Tesla 3 does an intelligent preheat if you're
driving to a supercharger station, then uses active liquid cooling to
keep the temps from getting too high. Pipistrel is adding liquid
cooling to their batteries also.

A 1C charge rate for the Alice would be about a megawatt, which would
require a considerable investment in infrastructure.

If Eviation has all this figured out, it begs the question why they just
burned up a prototype of a $4 million dollar airplane with a battery
fire. They have stated the prototype is "intact", which appears to be a
highly creative use of the term.
  #23  
Old January 27th 20, 05:32 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Posts: 1,939
Default Future of aviation, or flash in the pan??

wrote on 1/26/2020 9:27 AM:


I know several people WA state that are happy self-launching in their Silent
Electro and miniLaks. The GP15 has been delayed, in part because they are a new
glider company, and in part due the technical difficulties of producing a high
performance, self-launching sailplane. It still has a long order list. And when
Schleicher thinks it time to enter the field, it's not the future anymore.. Call
the Schleicher dealer and place your order for one, before the list gets too long.



Eric, I did just that, requested a quote for the AS 34. Full system price with trailer delivered to the US was just under $200k. That's really a lot for a non-flapped 18 m "Standard Class" glider that was developed over 25 years ago. I don't agree with you that this is "affordable". I also heard that sales are not so hot, you can get one this summer. If they had put this into a '29 or '33 I might be interested.

Have you priced an ASH 31Mi? That will make the '34 look more affordable. Or check
out the others I mentioned: GP15, miniLAK, Silent 2 Electro - all significantly
less than the AS 34. But, I am surprised at the $200K figure. I was quoted $180K a
couple months ago, which seemed quite reasonable.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
  #24  
Old January 28th 20, 03:48 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 463
Default Future of aviation, or flash in the pan??

On Sunday, January 26, 2020 at 10:32:42 PM UTC-6, Eric Greenwell wrote:
wrote on 1/26/2020 9:27 AM:


I know several people WA state that are happy self-launching in their Silent
Electro and miniLaks. The GP15 has been delayed, in part because they are a new
glider company, and in part due the technical difficulties of producing a high
performance, self-launching sailplane. It still has a long order list. And when
Schleicher thinks it time to enter the field, it's not the future anymore.. Call
the Schleicher dealer and place your order for one, before the list gets too long.



Eric, I did just that, requested a quote for the AS 34. Full system price with trailer delivered to the US was just under $200k. That's really a lot for a non-flapped 18 m "Standard Class" glider that was developed over 25 years ago. I don't agree with you that this is "affordable". I also heard that sales are not so hot, you can get one this summer. If they had put this into a '29 or '33 I might be interested.

Have you priced an ASH 31Mi? That will make the '34 look more affordable. Or check
out the others I mentioned: GP15, miniLAK, Silent 2 Electro - all significantly
less than the AS 34. But, I am surprised at the $200K figure. I was quoted $180K a
couple months ago, which seemed quite reasonable.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1


Eric, my estimate includes $20k for a trailer, $10k for instruments and $4k for ocean freight.
  #25  
Old January 28th 20, 04:04 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Nadler
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Posts: 1,610
Default Future of aviation, or flash in the pan??

On Sunday, January 26, 2020 at 7:14:12 PM UTC-5, jfitch wrote:
...an electric retrofit for the AS self launchers.
The engineering and installation should be relatively simple.


Um, not on this planet.
  #26  
Old January 28th 20, 05:20 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 774
Default Future of aviation, or flash in the pan??

The engineering and installation should be relatively simple.

Um, not on this planet.


"Designing an airplane is easy, if you don't know how."
  #27  
Old January 28th 20, 05:56 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Posts: 1,939
Default Future of aviation, or flash in the pan??

wrote on 1/27/2020 6:48 PM:
On Sunday, January 26, 2020 at 10:32:42 PM UTC-6, Eric Greenwell wrote:
wrote on 1/26/2020 9:27 AM:


I know several people WA state that are happy self-launching in their Silent
Electro and miniLaks. The GP15 has been delayed, in part because they are a new
glider company, and in part due the technical difficulties of producing a high
performance, self-launching sailplane. It still has a long order list. And when
Schleicher thinks it time to enter the field, it's not the future anymore.. Call
the Schleicher dealer and place your order for one, before the list gets too long.



Eric, I did just that, requested a quote for the AS 34. Full system price with trailer delivered to the US was just under $200k. That's really a lot for a non-flapped 18 m "Standard Class" glider that was developed over 25 years ago. I don't agree with you that this is "affordable". I also heard that sales are not so hot, you can get one this summer. If they had put this into a '29 or '33 I might be interested.

Have you priced an ASH 31Mi? That will make the '34 look more affordable. Or check
out the others I mentioned: GP15, miniLAK, Silent 2 Electro - all significantly
less than the AS 34. But, I am surprised at the $200K figure. I was quoted $180K a
couple months ago, which seemed quite reasonable.


Eric, my estimate includes $20k for a trailer, $10k for instruments and $4k for ocean freight.


The $180K I was given was for the glider, with trailer and typical instruments,
delivered to the US.


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
  #28  
Old January 28th 20, 06:18 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Nadler
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Posts: 1,610
Default Future of aviation, or flash in the pan??

On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 11:20:34 PM UTC-5, wrote:
The engineering and installation should be relatively simple.


Um, not on this planet.


"Designing an airplane is easy, if you don't know how."


Very nice Mark!
For those of you who don't know the reference, here's the source:

https://evtol.news/wp-content/upload...xpo-2019-5.pdf

(slide 27)

Amusing to see him hold it up next to the Lilienthal quote (which I've also seen more often in slightly different version and attributed to others): "To invent an aircraft is nothing. To build one is something. To fly is everything."

A recent example: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremyb.../#646fe858ab40

  #29  
Old January 28th 20, 07:46 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Posts: 1,463
Default Future of aviation, or flash in the pan??

On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 6:48:25 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sunday, January 26, 2020 at 10:32:42 PM UTC-6, Eric Greenwell wrote:
wrote on 1/26/2020 9:27 AM:


I know several people WA state that are happy self-launching in their Silent
Electro and miniLaks. The GP15 has been delayed, in part because they are a new
glider company, and in part due the technical difficulties of producing a high
performance, self-launching sailplane. It still has a long order list. And when
Schleicher thinks it time to enter the field, it's not the future anymore.. Call
the Schleicher dealer and place your order for one, before the list gets too long.



Eric, I did just that, requested a quote for the AS 34. Full system price with trailer delivered to the US was just under $200k. That's really a lot for a non-flapped 18 m "Standard Class" glider that was developed over 25 years ago. I don't agree with you that this is "affordable". I also heard that sales are not so hot, you can get one this summer. If they had put this into a '29 or '33 I might be interested.

Have you priced an ASH 31Mi? That will make the '34 look more affordable. Or check
out the others I mentioned: GP15, miniLAK, Silent 2 Electro - all significantly
less than the AS 34. But, I am surprised at the $200K figure. I was quoted $180K a
couple months ago, which seemed quite reasonable.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1


Eric, my estimate includes $20k for a trailer, $10k for instruments and $4k for ocean freight.


I think $20K for the trailer is a bit light and $4K for ocean transport must be to East coast?
  #30  
Old January 28th 20, 07:48 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jfitch
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Posts: 1,134
Default Future of aviation, or flash in the pan??

On Monday, January 27, 2020 at 7:04:36 PM UTC-8, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Sunday, January 26, 2020 at 7:14:12 PM UTC-5, jfitch wrote:
...an electric retrofit for the AS self launchers.
The engineering and installation should be relatively simple.


Um, not on this planet.


Perhaps you did not catch the "relatively"? Engine bay is already there, the doors are there, it is engineered and built for the weight, the extraction mechanism is already there, even the prop and boom. So yes, "relatively simple" compared to retrofitting say an ASW27, which is being done, and has none of those things.

I am not a stranger to complexity, or aircraft design.
 




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