Best Overall Motorglider available today?

On Sunday, October 11, 2020 at 6:57:23 PM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
Charging from the fuselage will make it impossible to charge overnight under most circumstances unless you tie down near a hangar or use your own generator. Perhaps using a generator is a reasonable practical method?

Ramy
I heard it takes roughly 10 gallons of fuel to recharge an empty Antares with a Honda generator. This ran all night long with a mid night refueling. They encourage every one in RV park to not run their generator and night because of the noise. If I was camping at an airfield and had to listen to a generator, I would be pretty unhappy especially if the owner was sleeping in another location.

Anybody thinking of owning an electric glider should understand the challenges. Those with removable battery packs are on the right path for general use.. Those with built in batteries are not seeing the big picture clearly..

I own DG 800b and fully admit this plane is not for everyone. I have been racing cars and 2 strokes all my life and found that experience has been vital to keep ahead of problems, and thanks to the forums for sharing. In the USA we are very challenged to find qualified people to work and maintain these unique machines. Every time a read about an owner taking his ship back to the factory for an annual in Europe, it is a stark reminder that even there, finding good qualified help is not easy.

Buzz

It's not only the electric glider that's the problem, it is that many
(most)
gliding Clubs do not have a reliable available power supply. Even with
conventional pure gliders it's not uncommon to see a maze of extension
leads snaking across the (wet) grass.
The Clubs could perhaps improve and adapt.

On Monday, October 12, 2020 at 1:40:52 PM UTC-4, Ramy wrote:
The price tag of close to 200K for a new self launcher does not surprise me as I don’t think you can’t find much cheaper for any new motorglider?
What surprises me is the expectation that the 34 will not perform as well as the top standard class such as LS8 and Discus 2 and is marketed as a club glider. After all the claim of 48:1 glide ratio is as high as you can expect from a non flap ship, which is not bad. So why do you expect it will not perform as well?
I wonder why they don’t offer the same option in the 33?
I would like to hear thoughts on it.
As for why I did not switch to a motorglider myself so far, part of it is enjoying the “pure� and adventure aspect of pure gliders, part is that in the places I fly and with the support I have, pure gliders worked well for me, part is shying away from complexity, maintainace and extra cost. But I am getting older, and electric solution appeal the most to me, but I haven’t found the silver lining I am looking for so far.

Ramy

'33 has a very small wing which would lead to a very high minimum wing loading. Additionally, fitting the batteries in the wings and getting a water system in the thin wing would(will?) be a real challenge.
FWIW
UH

BG wrote on 10/12/2020 10:47 AM:
On Sunday, October 11, 2020 at 6:57:23 PM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
Charging from the fuselage will make it impossible to charge overnight under most circumstances unless you tie down near a hangar or use your own generator. Perhaps using a generator is a reasonable practical method?

Ramy
I heard it takes roughly 10 gallons of fuel to recharge an empty Antares with a Honda generator. This ran all night long with a mid night refueling. They encourage every one in RV park to not run their generator and night because of the noise. If I was camping at an airfield and had to listen to a generator, I would be pretty unhappy especially if the owner was sleeping in another location.

Anybody thinking of owning an electric glider should understand the challenges. Those with removable battery packs are on the right path for general use.. Those with built in batteries are not seeing the big picture clearly..

Already there are several models of electric gliders with batteries in the wings, with more
coming in the future, because that allows the fuselage to hold a more powerful motor with a
larger propeller. The good news is they do not need to cause you to lose any sleep, because
they can be recharged without running a noisy generator all night, for several reasons:

- very quiet portable generators are readily available now
- the charging can be done for about 4 hours after landing, and 4 hours in the morning, giving
you a 10 pm - 7 am quiet time. That 8 hours of charging at 1.5kw, is 12 kWh, more than enough
to charge the GP15 I've ordered (8.2kWh battery), the AS34 (8.6kWh), and even the Antares (~10kWh)
- And especially because they will typically return with over half their capacity unused,
reducing the charge time to less than 4 hours.

And, if all else fails: earplugs, a white noise generator, maybe even a motel :^(

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Monday, October 12, 2020 at 1:14:01 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
BG wrote on 10/12/2020 10:47 AM:
On Sunday, October 11, 2020 at 6:57:23 PM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
Charging from the fuselage will make it impossible to charge overnight under most circumstances unless you tie down near a hangar or use your own generator. Perhaps using a generator is a reasonable practical method?

Ramy
I heard it takes roughly 10 gallons of fuel to recharge an empty Antares with a Honda generator. This ran all night long with a mid night refueling. They encourage every one in RV park to not run their generator and night because of the noise. If I was camping at an airfield and had to listen to a generator, I would be pretty unhappy especially if the owner was sleeping in another location.

Anybody thinking of owning an electric glider should understand the challenges. Those with removable battery packs are on the right path for general use.. Those with built in batteries are not seeing the big picture clearly..

Already there are several models of electric gliders with batteries in the wings, with more
coming in the future, because that allows the fuselage to hold a more powerful motor with a
larger propeller. The good news is they do not need to cause you to lose any sleep, because
they can be recharged without running a noisy generator all night, for several reasons:

- very quiet portable generators are readily available now

eco mode(quiet mode) on a Honda 2000(about 50lbs of generator) coughs and sputters around 500W. So for any significant charging session you'll need the noisier max rpm mode on the typical medium sized generator. So running 7pm to 10pm and in the morning is a good plan.

Not at all sure I'd consider having to lug heavy batteries out of the
glider,
putting them in a car, transporting them and then recharging them in
your RV/Gite/hotel/hangar/caravan/whatever could be viewed as a
universally good solution.
Then reversing the process next morning?

Simply plugging a single mains power lead into the Antares type 'battery
in wing' is a bit simpler, no? (The Antares has a built in charger system).

Plus if the whole shooting match bursts into flames it's not in your
RV/car/hotel/Gite......

Some European gliding clubs even now do not allow electric gliders to be
charged in their club hangars: fire risk, insurance problems?

Interesting times.

Dave Walsh wrote on 10/12/2020 2:26 PM:
Not at all sure I'd consider having to lug heavy batteries out of the
glider,
putting them in a car, transporting them and then recharging them in
your RV/Gite/hotel/hangar/caravan/whatever could be viewed as a
universally good solution.
Then reversing the process next morning?

Simply plugging a single mains power lead into the Antares type 'battery
in wing' is a bit simpler, no? (The Antares has a built in charger system).

Of course, that is the most desirable solution. The other solutions, including removing the
wing batteries, are for the times there isn't mains power near the glider parking area - the
usual situation I encounter. The only airfield I recall having convenient 120VAC sockets near
the aircraft was in Canada, so pilots could plug in their engine heaters during the winter.

For most pilots with wing batteries, I think a quiet, 2kW portable generator will be the
easiest answer to independent charging of their glider. They are priced in the $400-$1000
range, so cheap enough.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Monday, October 12, 2020 at 4:14:01 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
...Those with removable battery packs are on the right path for general use..
Those with built in batteries are not seeing the big picture clearly..

Seriously? Removable batteries are heavy and susceptible to damage (as proven).

If you think there is such a thing as a quiet generator you are either indulging in wishful thinking at the expense of your neighbors or you need your hearing evaluated, or both. Maybe it doesn't matter at some uninhabitable hellhole of a soaring site, but it would sure kill the ambiance at most of the (beautiful, quiet, wonderfully suitable for tent camping) sites I frequent.

T8

On 10/12/20 4:26 PM, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Monday, October 12, 2020 at 4:14:01 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
...Those with removable battery packs are on the right path for general use..
Those with built in batteries are not seeing the big picture clearly..

Seriously? Removable batteries are heavy and susceptible to damage (as proven).



That quote came from Buzz, not Eric. Eric is all-in with batteries less
conveniently removed, in the wings. He'll be flying his Jeta next year.
Maybe just on Condor :-)

I remember an Electro Taurus that showed up at Parowan a few years ago,
solar cells covering his trailer. Supposedly the cells would charge a
staging battery in the trailer during the day, then they would
cross-charge the ship batteries at night.

Pilot told me in reality it took three days of sunshine to get adequate
charge, and was wondering about the availability of a 220 volt outlet.

Also, during shipping the weight of the solar cells had caused the
trailer top to sag, and damaged his canopy.

Sometimes things that sound great on paper don't work out as planned in
reality. Speaking of such, why has no one recommended the Sunseeker for
Nick?

-Dave