On board battery(ies) for powering radios/Flarm etc

Thanks for that link. Price is decent, under a $100 for a 10 amp hour battery. I think I could easily over double that capacity with a couple power tool batteries in the same cubic space, however, the cost would be 4 times that.

LiPo tech has come a Looooooong way in the last 5 years. I cannot recall hearing about a LiPo combusting during use in a long time. Even at the ultra high amp draws I use in my chop saw, the batteries dont even get warm.

I was always anti-battery power tool until my first Milwaukee impact driver/hammer drill set 2 years ago. I have spent the last year renovating my house and upgrading all my tools. I am nearly 100% cordless now. I just had a wild idea that perhaps some of this new battery tech can come the way of soaring. I wasn't sure if anyone else was out there doing it.

Neal Alders wrote on 10/13/2020 10:56 AM:
Thanks for that link. Price is decent, under a $100 for a 10 amp hour battery. I think I could easily over double that capacity with a couple power tool batteries in the same cubic space, however, the cost would be 4 times that.

LiPo tech has come a Looooooong way in the last 5 years. I cannot recall hearing about a LiPo combusting during use in a long time. Even at the ultra high amp draws I use in my chop saw, the batteries dont even get warm.

I was always anti-battery power tool until my first Milwaukee impact driver/hammer drill set 2 years ago. I have spent the last year renovating my house and upgrading all my tools. I am nearly 100% cordless now. I just had a wild idea that perhaps some of this new battery tech can come the way of soaring. I wasn't sure if anyone else was out there doing it.

Instrument power is easily and cheaply solved with several brands of LiFe 12 volt batteries.
What we'd really like to see is better batteries for electric sailplanes (aka "traction
batteries"), specially more energy/mass and lower cost. Smaller would be useful, too, but not
nearly so much.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Im waiting for Super Capacitors to get perfected. I think LiPo and brushless batteries have made significant strides, and Super Capacitors would further that another generation of capability in electric powered aircraft.

Speaking of which,

Anyone know anything about this side by side self launch 15 meter bird, the Pipstrel Taurus? Electric or gas power?

Neal Alders wrote on 10/14/2020 9:05 AM:
Im waiting for Super Capacitors to get perfected. I think LiPo and brushless batteries have made significant strides, and Super Capacitors would further that another generation of capability in electric powered aircraft.

Speaking of which,

Anyone know anything about this side by side self launch 15 meter bird, the Pipstrel Taurus? Electric or gas power?

Look at the Pipstrel website for details and dealer info; also, there is at least one of each
(gas/electric) in the US.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

I have explored the website, was just looking to see if anyone had any experience or an opinion on them is all.

Neal Alders wrote on 10/14/2020 9:31 AM:
I have explored the website, was just looking to see if anyone had any experience or an opinion on them is all.

I suggest using the FAA registration data base for owners, and contacting them. There was also
an article or two in Soaring Magazine in the last 2-3 years - good starting places. The people
with these gliders in the US generally aren't on RAS, so you need to find them. Or call the
dealer and talk to him - he might be willing to give you owner contact info.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

At 16:31 14 October 2020, Neal Alders wrote:
I have explored the website, was just looking to see if anyone had any
experience or an opinion on them is all.

I've flown with several in typical Alpine conditions but I haven't flown
one. Several petrol (gas) versions operate at Sisteron, French Alps, and
seem to be universally well liked by their pilots. The good features a
-
Simple to taxi due to twin wheel U/C & steerable tail wheel
Good climb rate
Spacious cockpit
Good in flight visibility
Reliable Rotax two-stroke engine
In Europe it's an ultralight so (currently) outside EASA admin
Build quality very good
Light & simple to rig/de-rig
Good support from the makers
If you a coming from a conventional glider you will notice the Va and Vne
are low. They seem to climb well, especially when you remember you
have a two seat self-launch glider with a 15m wing span. Glide
performance is adequate but reportedly you need to keep the speed
down. If you are coming from a modern 15/18m ship you will likely feel
the performance limits.

Interesting ideas. Just a couple of comments (you knew this was coming)...

- It seems that most (many?) (new?) gliders have an existing space for one or more batteries in various locations. The common places seem to be behind the pilot near the spars in the cargo area and/or at the top of the vertical stabilizer.

- Each of these locations fits a specific size of battery for obvious standardizing reasons.

- One of the most common "standard" size batteries that I have found used in gliders are the brick sized 5.95"(150mm) x 2.56"(65mm) x 3.7"(95mm) with blade/faston type connections. These rechargeable batteries often have "1207", "1270" or "EB-12" in their model numbers.

- This size of SLA batteries have been around for many, many, years. As mentioned above we see them in kid's motorized toys. I found them in computer UPS systems, security alarm systems, and in those large car battery jump starters (with air pump, light, 12Vdc output, AC inverter, USB, kitchen sink).

- Because this size of battery is used to power such a wide diversity of systems they are very commonly available at hardware, auto parts and battery stores in nearly ever sized city, not to mention at Walmart and Amazon. I found this out a few years back after forgetting my (lithium) batteries and ran to the local NAPA to get replacement (SLA) batteries and fuse holders. I could have also borrowed from fellow glider pilots.

Bottom line: Moving to a battery system as found in battery powered tools is depending on something that is propriety in size and pin connections and is less likely to be found in a pinch let alone years from now. Sorry, I like easy to find and non-proprietary batteries.

As always, my $0.02.

- John DeRosa OHM Ω

Makes a lot of sense. And coming back to soaring after a 20 year hiatus, and getting some positive feedback is a pleasant change.

Thanks for that John. I understand the standardization aspect. I am coming out of Schweitzer Iron from back in the day, best ship I have flown was the 1-35. Nothing standard in those birds battery location and mounting.

Hence why I asked. I wasn't sure if the new manufactured sailplanes are still running the old stuff. I thought for sure some upgrades in battery capacity and capability would have occurred in the last 2 decades with the increase load demands of the modern cockpit avionics.


As for the Pipstrel, thanks for that feedback Dave. I appreciate the quick rundown, that's exactly the kind of intel I was looking for. I have a fellow captain at my airline who recently joined the club I belong to, and is expressing the same interest in a self launcher as I, so we are not tied down to any club to soar. We are not competitors, and not record chasers. We just want to go soaring. The reception and attitudes towards new, adult soaring enthusiasts, especially professional pilots, while generally good at the club we belong to, has honestly not been too good at others he and I have both visited over the last few years. I guess I am spoiled having been brought up at Valley Soaring under UH's tutelage.

Good points John.

A question to the ether that, perhaps the manufacturers will see and
think is a good idea:Â* Why not mount the tail battery low on the tail
rather than at the top where it makes an inverted pendulum? Maybe a door
at the aft side of the tail boom above the tail wheel?

On 10/14/2020 12:49 PM, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net
wrote:
Interesting ideas. Just a couple of comments (you knew this was coming)...

- It seems that most (many?) (new?) gliders have an existing space for one or more batteries in various locations. The common places seem to be behind the pilot near the spars in the cargo area and/or at the top of the vertical stabilizer.

- Each of these locations fits a specific size of battery for obvious standardizing reasons.

- One of the most common "standard" size batteries that I have found used in gliders are the brick sized 5.95"(150mm) x 2.56"(65mm) x 3.7"(95mm) with blade/faston type connections. These rechargeable batteries often have "1207", "1270" or "EB-12" in their model numbers.

- This size of SLA batteries have been around for many, many, years. As mentioned above we see them in kid's motorized toys. I found them in computer UPS systems, security alarm systems, and in those large car battery jump starters (with air pump, light, 12Vdc output, AC inverter, USB, kitchen sink).

- Because this size of battery is used to power such a wide diversity of systems they are very commonly available at hardware, auto parts and battery stores in nearly ever sized city, not to mention at Walmart and Amazon. I found this out a few years back after forgetting my (lithium) batteries and ran to the local NAPA to get replacement (SLA) batteries and fuse holders. I could have also borrowed from fellow glider pilots.

Bottom line: Moving to a battery system as found in battery powered tools is depending on something that is propriety in size and pin connections and is less likely to be found in a pinch let alone years from now. Sorry, I like easy to find and non-proprietary batteries.

As always, my $0.02.

- John DeRosa OHM Ω

--
Dan, 5J