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Buying Junk from Aircraft Spruce --- Or Putting Money Down a Rathole
1. If you buy something defective from ACS, watch out. That 1-year
warranty on a Mitchell cylinder head temperature gauge is worthless as the teats on a boar hog. Run-around time today: 45 minutes wasted. Their customer service manager, Carolyn Lyon, in Atlanta will put you on hold and leave you there. 2. Their alternative trick is to send you to the manufacturer for handling the piece of junk you've paid good folding money for. But your purchase contract is not with the manufacturer; it's with Aircraft Spruce. 3. Buyer bewa Mitchell cylinder head temperature gauge. I spent an hour installing it to monitor one new Superior cylinder out of six and the needle wouldn't even rise off the peg. And yes, I've installed these before, quite a few of them. Some are good, some rotten. This one was rotten. 4. Buyer bewa buying something like this from Spruce if it is defective is like putting money down a rathole. They will squirm like the devil to get out of paying your money back. 5. If you're tempted to buy anything more complicated than nuts and bolts from Spruce, don't say you weren't warned when you get screwed. And by the way, at our chapter breakfast last Saturday, our chapter news editor, good friend, and A&P (who is building his 4th aircraft) announced that he recently ordered 4130 steel plate (that's chrome molybdenum steel alloy) from Aircraft Spruce as shown in their catalog, and instead received a crappy plate of soft carbon steel, with 60% of the bearing strength of chromoly. So don't just take it from me these are shady characters. Then another dissatisfied customer popped up at the table, then another ... |
#2
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jls wrote:
+++++++ 4. Buyer bewa buying something like this from Spruce if it is defective is like putting money down a rathole. They will squirm like the devil to get out of paying your money back. 5. If you're tempted to buy anything more complicated than nuts and bolts from Spruce, don't say you weren't warned when you get screwed. And by the way, at our chapter breakfast last Saturday, our chapter news editor, good friend, and A&P (who is building his 4th aircraft) announced that he recently ordered 4130 steel plate (that's chrome molybdenum steel alloy) from Aircraft Spruce as shown in their catalog, and instead received a crappy plate of soft carbon steel, with 60% of the bearing strength of chromoly. So don't just take it from me these are shady characters. Then another dissatisfied customer popped up at the table, then another ... Now watch Jim pop up here. LOL BTW I agree with everything you said. |
#3
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On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:48:54 -0800, Jerry Springer
wrote: jls wrote: So don't just take it from me these are shady characters. Now watch Jim pop up here. LOL BTW I agree with everything you said. I don't. ACS has been around too long to be the "shady characters" that Latchless Larry would have us believe. Check the archives, he makes a habit of dumping on vendors for perceived slights. But make sure you have a comfortable chair, because last I looked under the two names he uses here (Larry Smith and jls), the total was something like 40 thousand posts. Jim, if you're reading, you're welcome at my place anytime. Latchless, you're welcome as well, but please give advance notice so that I can set out some leg-hold traps and prepare a rat hole for you. Wayne |
#4
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On Tue, 01 Feb 2005 13:54:28 GMT, wmbjk
wrote: On Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:48:54 -0800, Jerry Springer wrote: jls wrote: So don't just take it from me these are shady characters. Now watch Jim pop up here. LOL BTW I agree with everything you said. I don't. ACS has been around too long to be the "shady characters" that Latchless Larry would have us believe. Check the archives, he makes a habit of dumping on vendors for perceived slights. But make sure you have a comfortable chair, because last I looked under the two names he uses here (Larry Smith and jls), the total was something like 40 thousand posts. My chuckle, it would be interesting to know by what method they determined that it was "cheap carbon steel" rather than 41XX or anything else. The only way to know is laboratory analysis, and there's only a .0001% chance that anyone has done that before posting that they got something else. The chances of anyone being able to tell from "the way it works" are zero, other bull**** explanations stand for nothing. 4130,4140, 4150, and 1045 all work about the same until they're hardened, then the differences show up, but you're not going to do much with them after they're hardened. There are three things you can tell from "the way it works", "It's hard" "It's tough" "It's soft". Period. Greybeard |
#5
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"Greybeard" wrote in message ... My chuckle, it would be interesting to know by what method they determined that it was "cheap carbon steel" rather than 41XX or anything else. The only way to know is laboratory analysis, and there's only a .0001% chance that anyone has done that before posting that they got something else. The chances of anyone being able to tell from "the way it works" are zero, other bull**** explanations stand for nothing. 4130,4140, 4150, and 1045 all work about the same until they're hardened, then the differences show up, but you're not going to do much with them after they're hardened. There are three things you can tell from "the way it works", "It's hard" "It's tough" "It's soft". Period. Greybeard Hello, nobody at nowhere. We'll take a sample of it and have it tested at our local technical college, just to be sure. If the plate has chromium or molybdenum in it we'll find out with absolute certainty. If they can't do a spectrophotometry test, we'll find somebody who can. I'll publish the results here. You can place your bets now. I have taken 4130 tube and heated it red hot then quenched it in cold water. It is then brittle, but mild steel will remain soft enough to bend. That's why when you weld 4130, you have to normalize the welds by heating them cherry red, then allowing them to cool gradually at room temperature and no drafts. You, being the nobody at nowhere of authority, correct me if I'm wrong here. BTW, how many steel tube and rag aircraft have you built? The purchaser called Spruce to warn them and got an admission from Spruce that they had substituted mild steel because 4130 was not available and that they could never be sure, with the new supplier they had. That was after the purchaser had tested the purchased steel against the same thickness 4130 by pulling a sample of it with some hydraulic equipment and a calibrated gauge he uses to do destructive testing. He said the bolt holes began to elongate at 60% of the pull necessary to elongate the bolt hole on the known sample of 4130, indicating that the unknown sample was NOT 4130. That's proof enough for him and anybody else with good sense. Nobody, you can draw whatever conclusion you wish, but here in our chapter we have drawn a conclusion based on sound evidence from a respected aircraft builder and airframe and powerplant mechanic. Since the purchaser bought the steel plate to be 4130 for wing attach fittings on a cantilever wing, any knowledgeable people who read this could understand why he wrote Spruce a letter and told them that substituting mild steel for 4130 (which is exactly what they did) is dangerous. Naturally he never got an answer. Naturally he won't be using that steel plate for wing attach fittings. Naturally, as he just said over the phone awhile ago, he won't be buying anything else from Aircraft Spruce. And naturally, unscrupulous people who pollute the aircraft builder's market and their toadies won't have much of anything reasonable to say. As I said before, now having had yet another sour experience with Aircraft Spruce, buyer beware! |
#6
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jls wrote: I have taken 4130 tube and heated it red hot then quenched it in cold water. It is then brittle, but mild steel will remain soft enough to bend. That's why when you weld 4130, you have to normalize the welds by heating them cherry red, then allowing them to cool gradually at room temperature and no drafts. You, being the nobody at nowhere of authority, correct me if I'm wrong here. Earlier you wrote that ACS had substituted soft carbon steel for 4130. Quenching high carbon steel makes it brittle and hard. -- FF |
#7
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Aircraft Spruce
Many of your read the comments posted by "Larry" regarding "buying junk from Aircraft Spruce", and it is important that we state the facts in the situation. Larry purchased this Mitchell instruments some 8 months ago, and yesterday called to report that the instrument was defective and demanded his money back. The instruments is within its' year warranty so we offered to bring it back and have it repaired under warranty for him. Larry then proceeded to give our girl in Customer Service a large dose of profanity along with threats to blast our company to his news-group. He also spoke with Mitchell directly and verbally abused them as well, at which time they advised us tat they would not deal with him in any way. Our Customer Service manager, Carolyn Leon (who is wonderful with our customers and can solve any problem a customer may have) then called Larry to see what she can do. She was greeted with another long string of profanity and unreasonable demands, at which time she terminated the conversation. Aircraft Spruce will always do whatever we can to assist a customer, but my staff does not need to be abused. There was also come commentary about Aircraft Spruce substituting "mild steel" sheet in place of 4130 steel sheet, and that we were therefore "unscrupulous" people. Aircraft Spruce has an outstanding reputation for quality products over the past 40 years, and to suggest that we would intentionally substitute sub-standard material is insulting. The fact is that several sizes of 4130 sheet has not been available for Normalized (N) Condition in about a year, and these sizes are only available in Annealed (A) condition. Until these sizes are again produced by a mill in (N) condition, annealed material will be provided by ourselves and many other suppliers. We clearly state this in our current catalog and on our website. All the 4130 sheet we furnish is indeed 4130, and we have full test reports on file for anyone that needs them. I hope this information above clarifies these two issues for the newsgroup. If anyone would like further information or needs assistance please contact me directly at . Thanks to all of our valued customers for continued support. Jim Irwin President, Aircraft Spruce jls wrote: 1. If you buy something defective from ACS, watch out. That 1-year warranty on a Mitchell cylinder head temperature gauge is worthless as the teats on a boar hog. Run-around time today: 45 minutes wasted. Their customer service manager, Carolyn Lyon, in Atlanta will put you on hold and leave you there. 2. Their alternative trick is to send you to the manufacturer for handling the piece of junk you've paid good folding money for. But your purchase contract is not with the manufacturer; it's with Aircraft Spruce. 3. Buyer bewa Mitchell cylinder head temperature gauge. I spent an hour installing it to monitor one new Superior cylinder out of six and the needle wouldn't even rise off the peg. And yes, I've installed these before, quite a few of them. Some are good, some rotten. This one was rotten. 4. Buyer bewa buying something like this from Spruce if it is defective is like putting money down a rathole. They will squirm like the devil to get out of paying your money back. 5. If you're tempted to buy anything more complicated than nuts and bolts from Spruce, don't say you weren't warned when you get screwed. And by the way, at our chapter breakfast last Saturday, our chapter news editor, good friend, and A&P (who is building his 4th aircraft) announced that he recently ordered 4130 steel plate (that's chrome molybdenum steel alloy) from Aircraft Spruce as shown in their catalog, and instead received a crappy plate of soft carbon steel, with 60% of the bearing strength of chromoly. So don't just take it from me these are shady characters. Then another dissatisfied customer popped up at the table, then another ... |
#8
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Mr. Irwin I wouldn't worry about Larry in the least. We don't
"Plane Fun" wrote in message ups.com... Aircraft Spruce Many of your read the comments posted by "Larry" regarding "buying junk from Aircraft Spruce", and it is important that we state the facts in the situation. Larry purchased this Mitchell instruments some 8 months ago, and yesterday called to report that the instrument was defective and demanded his money back. The instruments is within its' year warranty so we offered to bring it back and have it repaired under warranty for him. Larry then proceeded to give our girl in Customer Service a large dose of profanity along with threats to blast our company to his news-group. He also spoke with Mitchell directly and verbally abused them as well, at which time they advised us tat they would not deal with him in any way. Our Customer Service manager, Carolyn Leon (who is wonderful with our customers and can solve any problem a customer may have) then called Larry to see what she can do. She was greeted with another long string of profanity and unreasonable demands, at which time she terminated the conversation. Aircraft Spruce will always do whatever we can to assist a customer, but my staff does not need to be abused. There was also come commentary about Aircraft Spruce substituting "mild steel" sheet in place of 4130 steel sheet, and that we were therefore "unscrupulous" people. Aircraft Spruce has an outstanding reputation for quality products over the past 40 years, and to suggest that we would intentionally substitute sub-standard material is insulting. The fact is that several sizes of 4130 sheet has not been available for Normalized (N) Condition in about a year, and these sizes are only available in Annealed (A) condition. Until these sizes are again produced by a mill in (N) condition, annealed material will be provided by ourselves and many other suppliers. We clearly state this in our current catalog and on our website. All the 4130 sheet we furnish is indeed 4130, and we have full test reports on file for anyone that needs them. I hope this information above clarifies these two issues for the newsgroup. If anyone would like further information or needs assistance please contact me directly at . Thanks to all of our valued customers for continued support. Jim Irwin President, Aircraft Spruce jls wrote: 1. If you buy something defective from ACS, watch out. That 1-year warranty on a Mitchell cylinder head temperature gauge is worthless as the teats on a boar hog. Run-around time today: 45 minutes wasted. Their customer service manager, Carolyn Lyon, in Atlanta will put you on hold and leave you there. 2. Their alternative trick is to send you to the manufacturer for handling the piece of junk you've paid good folding money for. But your purchase contract is not with the manufacturer; it's with Aircraft Spruce. 3. Buyer bewa Mitchell cylinder head temperature gauge. I spent an hour installing it to monitor one new Superior cylinder out of six and the needle wouldn't even rise off the peg. And yes, I've installed these before, quite a few of them. Some are good, some rotten. This one was rotten. 4. Buyer bewa buying something like this from Spruce if it is defective is like putting money down a rathole. They will squirm like the devil to get out of paying your money back. 5. If you're tempted to buy anything more complicated than nuts and bolts from Spruce, don't say you weren't warned when you get screwed. And by the way, at our chapter breakfast last Saturday, our chapter news editor, good friend, and A&P (who is building his 4th aircraft) announced that he recently ordered 4130 steel plate (that's chrome molybdenum steel alloy) from Aircraft Spruce as shown in their catalog, and instead received a crappy plate of soft carbon steel, with 60% of the bearing strength of chromoly. So don't just take it from me these are shady characters. Then another dissatisfied customer popped up at the table, then another ... |
#9
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Plane Fun wrote...
I hope this information above clarifies these two issues for the newsgroup. .... Jim Irwin President, Aircraft Spruce It clarified one for me. But just to make sure, I tried to search Aircraft Spruce's website for their privacy policy. "Sorry. Nothing matched your search for PRIVACY. Please try a different search. You won't be getting any personal information, or cash, from me. Dave 'CAFB' Hyde |
#10
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Michell Instruments would not honor their warranty on an instrument I
purchased. The gauge came from Chief and they gave me my money back with no problems. Michell's warranty runs from the date of manufacture, not the date of purchase and the only way to determine the manufactured date is to call Mitchell with the serial no. An instrument could sit in a dealer's inventory for one year and the buyer would get no warranty. My gauge was still in warranty, but they would not fix it or refund the cost. They said they had stopped making that model therefore they could not honor any warranty. I talked to sales then the head honcho at Michell and got the same story from both. Chief is fine to deal with ,but I'll never buy another Mitchell product! " jls" wrote in message ... 1. If you buy something defective from ACS, watch out. That 1-year warranty on a Mitchell cylinder head temperature gauge is worthless as the teats on a boar hog. Run-around time today: 45 minutes wasted. Their customer service manager, Carolyn Lyon, in Atlanta will put you on hold and leave you there. 2. Their alternative trick is to send you to the manufacturer for handling the piece of junk you've paid good folding money for. But your purchase contract is not with the manufacturer; it's with Aircraft Spruce. 3. Buyer bewa Mitchell cylinder head temperature gauge. I spent an hour installing it to monitor one new Superior cylinder out of six and the needle wouldn't even rise off the peg. And yes, I've installed these before, quite a few of them. Some are good, some rotten. This one was rotten. 4. Buyer bewa buying something like this from Spruce if it is defective is like putting money down a rathole. They will squirm like the devil to get out of paying your money back. 5. If you're tempted to buy anything more complicated than nuts and bolts from Spruce, don't say you weren't warned when you get screwed. And by the way, at our chapter breakfast last Saturday, our chapter news editor, good friend, and A&P (who is building his 4th aircraft) announced that he recently ordered 4130 steel plate (that's chrome molybdenum steel alloy) from Aircraft Spruce as shown in their catalog, and instead received a crappy plate of soft carbon steel, with 60% of the bearing strength of chromoly. So don't just take it from me these are shady characters. Then another dissatisfied customer popped up at the table, then another ... ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
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