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  #21  
Old December 24th 09, 01:18 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tuno
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Posts: 640
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Ah, the old "Common man can't do his own critical thinking on an
important matter" argument. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

No wonder Al Gore refuses to debate anyone on the topic.

..02NO
  #22  
Old December 24th 09, 01:31 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Brad[_2_]
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What I'd like to know, is what will be the impact felt by us as
sailplane pilots. Since this is RAS, and there are content cops
patrolling the internets.

Will we:

Be lining up to buy electric sailplanes?

Selling our 2-stroke powered sailplanes because the 2-stroke will be
vilified?

Finding it harder and harder to justify aero-towing, due to fuel costs
and the perception that a bunch of "rich" guys wanna play.

Be looking at winching, for real this time?

Be riding our bikes to the airport?

I won't pretend I can participate in the science part of the debate,
but when it comes to what "pain" are we going to feel in order to
implement whatever is deemed necessary to "reduce" glabal
war.........er, I mean Climate Change, I sure have some concerns to
talk about!

Brad
  #23  
Old December 24th 09, 01:33 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Richard[_9_]
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Posts: 551
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On Dec 23, 4:18*pm, Tuno wrote:
Ah, the old "Common man can't do his own critical thinking on an
important matter" argument. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

No wonder Al Gore refuses to debate anyone on the topic.

.02NO


Never trust a guy with one name!

Algore
  #24  
Old December 24th 09, 02:02 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
T8
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Posts: 429
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On Dec 23, 7:31*pm, Brad wrote:
What I'd like to know, is what will be the impact felt by us as
sailplane pilots. Since this is RAS, and there are content cops
patrolling the internets.

Will we:

Be lining up to buy electric sailplanes?

Selling our 2-stroke powered sailplanes because the 2-stroke will be
vilified?

Finding it harder and harder to justify aero-towing, due to fuel costs
and the perception that a bunch of "rich" guys wanna play.

Be looking at winching, for real this time?

Be riding our bikes to the airport?

I won't pretend I can participate in the science part of the debate,
but when it comes to what "pain" are we going to feel in order to
implement whatever is deemed necessary to "reduce" glabal
war.........er, I mean Climate Change, I sure have some concerns to
talk about!

Brad


Probably some new ridge soaring opportunities within a few thousands
of years, when the glaciers return.

-T8

  #25  
Old December 24th 09, 02:41 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
T8
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Posts: 429
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On Dec 23, 6:11*pm, bildan wrote:


So, do I 'believe' in global warming? *It's not a matter of belief -
it's a matter of what the data is saying. *What is available now is
extremely alarming.


I regard that point as honestly debatable. And all the hot air out of
Al Gore to the contrary, I do not think we've really had that debate.
I'd like to see this chap (Richard Lindzen, MIT prof.)
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...917025400.html
get a little more airplay as I think he's done some excellent work and
tough luck that the results don't play well with the current political
agenda. You can hardly call this "sniping at the edges".

Don't doubt for a moment that NCAR is full of earnest, smart, hard
working guys. And I think that if pressed over a couple of beers that
they will probably admit that their models are full of problems.
That's part of what Lindzen's work is all about: getting the
atmospheric data that will validate (or not) these models. Mostly
"not" at the moment, it appears. And until they *are* validated, the
models are not useful for prediction, full stop.

One thing I've wondered about rather idly, that I have not seen come
up in discussions on the topic of AGW, is what the AGW proponents
think about the cycle of the ice ages, and if these cycles are
supposed to have become irrelevant. My home has spent the majority of
the last million years under a *lot* of ice and snow. In fact, that
should probably be regarded as the normal condition here in what we
now call New Hampshire, USA. Do these guys *really* believe that the
cycle of the ice ages has been broken? If so, does their model
predict the end of the Holocene and a return to an ice age in the
absence of anthropogenic CO2? If not... pray tell, *why* not?

I don't work in this area. I have a business, well two of 'em
actually, to run, a family to take care of and a sweetheart of a curvy
beautiful 24 year old glider to fly in such spare time as I have, so
about all *I* have time to do on AGW is "snipe at the edges". In so
doing, I hope to plant seeds of rational thought in others' minds such
that we become as a whole a bit more resistant to being hearded about
like so many sheep.

-Evan Ludeman / T8


  #26  
Old December 24th 09, 02:44 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_5_]
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On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 13:13:54 -0800, Newill wrote:

On Dec 23, 10:38Â*am, Martin Gregorie
wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 22:21:46 -0800, Frank Whiteley wrote:

Note my comments to the article about soaring near Oxford when the
persistent contrails filled the southern sky.


Yes, and I remember the discussion on r.a.s about contrails and their
spread-out to form cirrus just after the post-9/11 three day warm
period was reported. IIRC the discussion then was about the effect of
contrails in the soaring areas beneath flight paths out of large US
West Coast airports.

--

In the USA there was a rather well done program on NOVA or Frontline
(PBS) that investigated the impact of the contrails and concluded that
contrails actually contribute to global cooling - not warming!

So, how did they explain the 1 degree C rise in ground temperature during
the three days when all civil aviation was grounded?


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
  #27  
Old December 24th 09, 03:08 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_5_]
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Posts: 1,224
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On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 16:31:41 -0800, Brad wrote:

Be lining up to buy electric sailplanes?

My guess is yes. I want one, I want one NOW.

Be looking at winching, for real this time?

I hope so. I really enjoy winching.
Also , I want to try a launch off one of the German electric winches.

Be riding our bikes to the airport?

The distance to the glider field is a problem almost everywhere. Noise is
probably a good part of that, but again winches are the answer: even an
ugly old diesel winch has a vastly smaller noise footprint than a tow
plane or a 2-stroke self-launcher. Our Supacat has a 240 hp V8 aircooled
Deutz diesel on straight pipes. It has to be a very still, silent day for
us to hear it from the launch point. I've heard it at dawn during the
Longest Day madness but you have to listen. Apart from that I've heard it
once during the day and was quite surprised to have done so.

I reckon an electric winch would be ideal on both noise and pollution
grounds: the black plume from the winch if its launching something heavy
looks pretty ugly.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
  #28  
Old December 24th 09, 03:19 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Brad[_2_]
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Posts: 722
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On Dec 23, 5:44*pm, Martin Gregorie
wrote:
On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 13:13:54 -0800, Newill wrote:
On Dec 23, 10:38*am, Martin Gregorie
wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 22:21:46 -0800, Frank Whiteley wrote:


Note my comments to the article about soaring near Oxford when the
persistent contrails filled the southern sky.


Yes, and I remember the discussion on r.a.s about contrails and their
spread-out to form cirrus just after the post-9/11 three day warm
period was reported. IIRC the discussion then was about the effect of
contrails in the soaring areas beneath flight paths out of large US
West Coast airports.


--


In the USA there was a rather well done program on NOVA or Frontline
(PBS) that investigated the impact of the contrails and concluded that
contrails actually contribute to global cooling - not warming!


So, how did they explain the 1 degree C rise in ground temperature during
the three days when all civil aviation was grounded?

--
martin@ * | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org * * * |


you know, according to noetic scientists, the collective consciousness
of the world was measurable on that day.................or so I read.

Brad
  #29  
Old December 24th 09, 03:20 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Scott Alexander[_2_]
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Posts: 161
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Al Gore might sound a little bit more believable if he didn't jetset
around the world in .... not just one.....but TWO private jets that
have EXTREMELY high fuel burns per hour - (compared to other corporate
jets of similar size). Not only did he buy a couple of jets that are
notorious for being fuel hogs, he also built a few mega mansions that
were very energy-in-efficient. Don't you think if Al really believed
this stuff he would practice what he preached? Once he started
getting criticized for this matter, he converted his houses into
extremely energy efficient designs. Guess he didn't want to
jeapordize his empire of wealth obtained from scaring the world about
how half of Florida will be under water. Let's not forget about his
subliminal messages of nuclear bombs going off in his movie An
Incovenient Truth! see this link for a picture.....

http://media.photobucket.com/image/b...g/gorenuke.jpg


This whole mess sounds about as believable as when the Greeks claimed
that a giant named "Atlas" was holding up the earth on his shoulders.
Back when the greeks were the cutting edge of science and theory, that
seemed like a reasonable thing. Earthquakes? Atlas was moving around
and it caused the ground to shake. One day, scientists will look back
at this era and laugh. Some scientists believe our earth is soooooo
incredibly huge that the polluntants we put in the atmosphere are like
a grain of sand on a large beach. So small you can't even find it if
you look hard. But a theory like that wont sell tickets, popcorn and
a 25 dollar pack of junior mints at your local movie theatre.


Ever been to L.A.? Doesn't all that smog look terrible? You may not
know this, That smog has been there since well before planes, trains
and automobiles. That's why the native indians (the Chumash tribe)
hundreds of years ago named it "The Valley of Smoke". It was smoggy
back then and it is smoggy today.


Hey by the way - What ever happened to that "hole in the ozone" did
they ever get that thing patched up ok?

  #30  
Old December 24th 09, 03:41 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Brad[_2_]
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Posts: 722
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Hey by the way - What ever happened to that "hole in the ozone" did
they ever get that thing patched up ok?


No, that hole is how the spaceship the Maitreya is riding around in is
going to slip into the atmoshpere.

How does all this tie in you ask??

Climate change, Global Warming, Peak Oil, insert_calamity_here, will
all be fixed by this dude.....don't believe it??
Wait for the next ad on cable TV his pals are running, you know, the
"bright star" pulsating light in the sky?

Ok................I'm ready for the content police to take me away!

Brad

 




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