Legal or not?

Jim Macklin wrote:
GPS can substitute for the ADF. Radar can substitute also.
So, if the acft has no ADF or the NDB is OTS, so, it could
be.

Are you sure radar can be? When an ILS says "ADF Required" I believe
you must either have ADF or GPS. Usually if radar is good enough it
will say "ADF or Radar Required".

-Robert

"Rick McPherson" wrote in message
...

On Aug 28 I was practicing approaches at KAGC (FEW 008 BKN 012 OVR 025 4SM
BR). My preflight brief indicated that the McKeesport NDB is out of
service. Yet, the ATIS identified runway 28 as active and we were given
the ILS 28 approach for practice (upon request). Is this approach legal
without the beacon?
http://download.aopa.org/ustprocs/20...ils_rwy_28.pdf


Yes.



As a side note, is the equipment that you fly still using ADF?


Yes.

"Brad" wrote in message
ups.com...

If MKP was a Radar Fix, they could.


Radar fix? What purpose does MKP serve if you're vectored to the localizer?

"Dane Spearing" wrote in message
...

The use of an approach certified GPS in lieu of an ADF is addressed in
AIM 1-1-19f. See:

http://www.faa.gov/ATPubs/AIM/Chap1/aim0101.html#1-1-19

In a nutshell, yes, you can use your IFR approach certified GPS in lieu
of an ADF for identifying the OM on an ILS approach, and/or for
identifying
a missed approach fix.


Use of GPS in lieu of ADF and DME is covered in that paragraph, but I see no
mention of use of GPS in lieu of a marker beacon receiver. While an ADF can
certainly identify an LOM, it won't identify an OM.

"Brad" wrote in message
ups.com...

Nope, you're correct, its just a feeder route to the IAF. If MKP was
an intersection, you'd see MKP INT on the profile and plan view. The
076 line and arrow would extend all the way to the fix, rather than
just pointing towards the fix as the feeder route does. Distance and
angle did not meet the terps requirement to serve as a radial to
identify it as a intersection fix.


Why would the feeder route need to do any more than that? All the ADF does
on this approach is allow the pilot to navigate to the localizer. The
feeder route does that and so does a radar vector.

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...

Since it was a practice approach (VFR I assume) it would be legal even
if the loc was out of service.
However, even as an acutal IFR approach it can still be given assuming
you can identify the ADF on your GPS.


Why would you need to identify the ADF?

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...

Since it was a practice approach (VFR I assume) it would be legal even
if the loc was out of service.
However, even as an acutal IFR approach it can still be given assuming
you can identify the ADF on your GPS.


Why would you need to identify the ADF?

Well, in the case of the ILS SAC its because the course from the outer
marker is one degree off the localizer.

-Robert

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...

Since it was a practice approach (VFR I assume) it would be legal even
if the loc was out of service.
However, even as an acutal IFR approach it can still be given assuming
you can identify the ADF on your GPS.


Why would you need to identify the ADF?


Well, in the case of the ILS SAC its because the course from the outer
marker is one degree off the localizer.


Why would you need to identify the ADF in this case?

-----Original Message-----
From: Rick McPherson ]
Posted At: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 3:13 PM
Posted To: rec.aviation.ifr
Conversation: Legal or not?
Subject: Legal or not?

....

As a side note, is the equipment that you fly still using ADF?

Rick


Absolutely -- I just took my IPC 10 days ago and had to execute an NDB
intercept via own navigation, a 3 loop NDB hold, and an NDB approach.
Even though we had a GX55 on board, it was "failed".

After not having done any serious clock-work for 18 years, I came back
about 6 pounds lighter and dripping wet; but thank heavens the laws of
physics haven't changed.

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven P. McNicoll ]
Posted At: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 6:06 PM
Posted To: rec.aviation.ifr
Conversation: Legal or not?
Subject: Legal or not?


....
certainly identify an LOM, it won't identify an OM.

Ok, it's getting late and I haven't asked enough stupid questions today
so here goes: what is the difference between an Outer Marker and a
Locator Outer Marker? Aren't they the same frequency, same audio pattern
and tone?