Safety pilot in and out of IMC

I want to go fly some approaches (and a hold) on Sunday. I know from
experience that it's likely that the ceilings will be too high to do any
meaningful approaches in IMC, but high enough that I might be in IMC
during the vectors to the approach or at the hold. I figured I could take
along a safety pilot, and then when I break out on the approach tell him
he's acting PIC while I put on my foggles and complete the approach, and
then when we go back into the clouds on the missed take off the foggles
(or not) and become PIC again.

Has anybody else done this? Is it smart? Safe? Legal?


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"As Canadian as possible, under the circumstances"

Paul Tomblin wrote:
I want to go fly some approaches (and a hold) on Sunday. I know from
experience that it's likely that the ceilings will be too high to do any
meaningful approaches in IMC, but high enough that I might be in IMC
during the vectors to the approach or at the hold. I figured I could take
along a safety pilot, and then when I break out on the approach tell him
he's acting PIC while I put on my foggles and complete the approach, and
then when we go back into the clouds on the missed take off the foggles
(or not) and become PIC again.

Has anybody else done this? Is it smart? Safe? Legal?


It seems reasonable. However, why not leave the foggles on all
the time. It's redundant in IMC, but saves you having to fiddle
with them.

There's no need to tell the other pilot to be "PIC", just ask him
to take the controls. There's a difference betweeen operating the
controls and serving as pilot in command.

The FAA rule on the matter is that you gotta have a safety pilot
if you've got the foggles on. Since he's along for the ride anyhow,
he can just stare out into the soup in until you break out into visual
conditions.

"Paul Tomblin" wrote:
I want to go fly some approaches (and a hold) on Sunday. I know from
experience that it's likely that the ceilings will be too high to do any
meaningful approaches in IMC, but high enough that I might be in IMC
during the vectors to the approach or at the hold. I figured I could take
along a safety pilot, and then when I break out on the approach tell him
he's acting PIC while I put on my foggles and complete the approach, and
then when we go back into the clouds on the missed take off the foggles
(or not) and become PIC again.

Has anybody else done this? Is it smart? Safe? Legal?

As long as you're flying an IFR clearance, I see no problem with it. Are you
doing it just so you can log the time in actual? Whenever I'm doing practice
approaches in such conditions, I just keep the foggles on the whole time.
--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

Yeah, but there's nothing like those funky shadows you get when you're in
the clouds...

Marco Leon

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...
It seems reasonable. However, why not leave the foggles on all
the time. It's redundant in IMC, but saves you having to fiddle
with them.

In a previous article, Ron Natalie said:
Paul Tomblin wrote:
during the vectors to the approach or at the hold. I figured I could take
along a safety pilot, and then when I break out on the approach tell him
he's acting PIC while I put on my foggles and complete the approach, and
It seems reasonable. However, why not leave the foggles on all
the time. It's redundant in IMC, but saves you having to fiddle
with them.

Good point.

There's no need to tell the other pilot to be "PIC", just ask him
to take the controls. There's a difference betweeen operating the
controls and serving as pilot in command.

I don't want him to take the controls. I thought that the non-instrument
rated safety pilot in VMC is acting PIC (and both of us can log PIC since
he's acting and I'm sole manipulator), but obviously he can't be acting
PIC when in IMC.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
I stayed up all night playing poker with tarot cards. I got a full
house and four people died. -- Steven Wright

Paul Tomblin wrote:


There's no need to tell the other pilot to be "PIC", just ask him
to take the controls. There's a difference betweeen operating the
controls and serving as pilot in command.


I don't want him to take the controls. I thought that the non-instrument
rated safety pilot in VMC is acting PIC (and both of us can log PIC since
he's acting and I'm sole manipulator), but obviously he can't be acting
PIC when in IMC.

It is up to you two to decide WHO is the pilot in command. He can't
be PIC on an instrument plan (regardless of whether it is VMC or IMC).

Ron Natalie wrote:
There's no need to tell the other pilot to be "PIC", just ask him
to take the controls. There's a difference betweeen operating the
controls and serving as pilot in command.

My recommendation would be to brief your safety pilot before you start
up so you both know what you're expecting from each other. When you
break out on short final is no time for the two of you to be wondering
why the other guy doesn't appear to be doing anything about getting
ready to land (or worse, one guy is pulling the throttle back to land
while the other guy is picking the gear up to go missed).

Ron Natalie wrote:
: The FAA rule on the matter is that you gotta have a safety pilot
: if you've got the foggles on.

... and are in VMC, no? No need to scan for traffic in IMC so I wouldn't
think that it's necessary to have a safety pilot. Of course you don't *know* that
it's IMC if you have them on... interesting.

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

Roy Smith wrote:
Ron Natalie wrote:

There's no need to tell the other pilot to be "PIC", just ask him
to take the controls. There's a difference betweeen operating the
controls and serving as pilot in command.


My recommendation would be to brief your safety pilot before you start
up so you both know what you're expecting from each other. When you
break out on short final is no time for the two of you to be wondering
why the other guy doesn't appear to be doing anything about getting
ready to land (or worse, one guy is pulling the throttle back to land
while the other guy is picking the gear up to go missed).

Agreed, anytime there is more than one pilot in the aircraft it behooves
you to figure out what roles (if any) each will play.

wrote:
Ron Natalie wrote:
: The FAA rule on the matter is that you gotta have a safety pilot
: if you've got the foggles on.

... and are in VMC, no?

The rule says "simulated instrument flight." You can argue that the
"foggles on in IMC" isn't really simulated anymore, just severe actual,
but the truth of the matter is, how do you know you're not in visual
conditions?