EU as joke (modified)

Alan Minyard wrote:

On Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:16:38 +0100, Ralph Savelsberg wrote:



Emmanuel Gustin wrote:


"Ralph Savelsberg" wrote in message
...



The stereotype would be that Americans think that 'if you're not with
us, you're against us'.


Isn't that almost exactly what George W. said -- or is
my memory failing?


That's pretty much what he said after september eleventh. I cringed when
I heard it, but then again, the man has said a lot of strange things,
which often were reinterpreted by his aides with words like "That's not
what the president said." or "What the president meant to say was .....".
In any case, dumb rhetoric is part of almost every politician's
vocabulary and after all, the US had been viciously attacked. I think
it's generally not all that hard to see through the rhetoric. The sad
thing is that some people apparently can't.



But I agree that Al Minkukel is a fool by any standard.



He's a strong supporter of his government's position and I don't blame him for that, even though I have grave doubts about that position.

However, what tends to annoy me immensely is his generalizing talk about `Europeans are this, Europeans are that', his lack of

distinction between facts and his own opinion and his apparent inability to seperate his feelings about some European countries'

political positions from his opinion about Europeans, European society, and things made in Europe in general.



In order to clarify my remarks, when I say "europe" I mean "old europe"
France, Germany Belgium, The Netherlands, Greece, Italy, etc. I do not
include the UK, Poland or the other former east block countries.

Al Minyard

That doesn't change anything and furthermore seems rather arbitrary.

You're still generalising and the Italian and Dutch governments actually

supported the US invasion of Iraq.





Further discussion obviously serves no point, since you're not
interested in discussion.
You call me misinformed, but as it turns out you yourself are hard
pressed to come up with anything other than cliches and things that are
blatently wrong (I'm referring to our discussion on the Dutch military).

It must be really comforting to be able to shut down your capability for
thought and instead simply follow the rhetoric.

Ralph Savelsberg

"Alan Minyard" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 23:55:38 GMT, "Bjørnar Bolsøy"
wrote:

(BUFDRVR) wrote in
:

Again, I don't know what you mean by "cowboy", but I do know
Bush's image, be it right or not, suffers from his
inability to communcate with a clear sense of depth, wisdom
and well articulation compared to some other US presidents,
or officials.

You don't what I mean by cowboy?

You might have an entirely different opinion than me.


Come on, there were political
cartoons daily of Bush with a big 10 gallon hat on, riding
horses and performing other such ranch tasks.

Is that being a cowboy? What about Texan? Do you honestly
expect eropeans, or anyone else for that matter, to be
familiar with the Texas culture, and know how to see right
past Bush's religios tenor and blunt language?

In public relations you are taught to talk accross cultures,
for a good reason.

Why talk "across cultures"? The job of President of the
United States is not a "public relations" job. If pursuing
our national interests upsets the Dutch, why should we
care??


Additionally, his
ranch in Texas was under constant attack in the European press
for being "isolated in the desert".

Just curious, have you ever lived or serviced in europe, or
anywhere else for that matter?

As a bomber guy, it'll be rare if I'm ever permantly stationed
overseas (unless they open a bomb wing on Andersen AFB,
Guam...again), but I spent 5 months at RAF Fairford during
Operation ALLIED FORCE.

Well, do you speak a second or third language?


Regards...

Why would an American want to learn any language other
than English. Especially some silly "old europe" language?

So as not to look like an arrogant tosser?

English is, after all, the default language everywhere. I have
traveled to over 60 countries, and I was never is a position
where English could not be used.

Says a lot.

John

I have served in the US Navy, and routinely visited europe.
Other than the RN, their naval forces were a joke (they still
are). I also served quite a bit of time in the Pacific. I much
prefer the latter.

If you expect a ground war, building ships would be kinda stupid.

Alan Minyard wrote:


Europe is irrelevant. We could care less what supposed
"reasons" you have.

Do not, rpt not, get in our way.

Al Minyard


You come across as one arrogant SOB sir, you admire school
bullies too do you?.
--

-Gord.

Alan Minyard wrote in
:

Actually, it is irrelevant in
any context. The US will, despite your pathetic mewing,
defeat terrorism.

Let's hope so. So far the US, with its strong support for
Sharon's devestating efforts on the middleeast peaceprocces,
has only succeded in manifesting more terrorism.



Regards...

I have
traveled to over 60 countries, and I was never is a position
where English could not be used.

To keep your record at 100%, avoid a very nice resturant on "the square" in
Mons Belgium. The name escapes me at the moment, but if not for my "pigeon
German" I don't think I could have understood enough to order there.
Interestingly enough, the waiter didn't speak German too well either and I've
no clue about Flemish or French. Was good food though....


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Alan Minyard wrote in
news
On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 23:55:38 GMT, "Bjørnar Bolsøy"
wrote:

Well, do you speak a second or third language?


Regards...

Why would an American want to learn any language other
than English. Especially some silly "old europe" language?
English is, after all, the default language everywhere. I have
traveled to over 60 countries, and I was never is a position
where English could not be used.

Al Minyard

I don't mean to be rude, but it's rather obvious you've hardly
stepped outside your own bedroom.


Regards...

Perhaps you should say that to the families of all the
US servicemen who are going to loose their lives because
their president seems perfectly oblivious to the fact
that he has sent them to war:

He's far from oblivious. He's been saying since May that Iraq is a dangerous
place.

It ponders my mind what "national security" you feel
the US has in Iraq.

I already spelled that out for you. Possible chemical and biological weapons
and ties to international terrorists. It was a combination we could not allow
to continue and since it was apparent the UN, nor anyone else was going to do
anything about it, we did.

"The United States, as the world knows, will never start
a war. We do not want a war. We do not now expect a war.
This generation of Americans has already had enough -
more than enough - of war and hate and oppression."

John F. Kennedy

You quote perhaps one of the most corrupt Presidents the US had in the 20th
Century. Vietnam, Berlin, Bay of Pigs and the Cuban Missile Crisis, oh yeah
that JFK he was a saint. LOL.

And europe is sooooo good at that. Remember the Congo?
India?, etc.?

Exactly, and one should expect the US to learn from that.
Europe did.

Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo? Doesn't sound like you learned too well.

Suffice
to say the UN has played a crucial role in maintaining
peace and security and promoting human rights, economic
and social development and human rights ever since its
incarnation.

The existance of the UN has not benifited US national security to a significant
enough degree for most Americans to really care for the organization. They
lost what good will I had toward them when they waited five days to denounce
the 9/11 attacks. Hell, I think Iran spoke out sooner.

The US is an important member, which seems to indicate
its importance to US politics as well.


Negative. Just my opinion, but I believe if the UN fails to assist in Iraq,
that public opinion will turn to the point of forcing the US to withdraw
*slowly* from the UN. As far as most Americans are concerned, the UN is at
best an irrelevent organization, at worst its an anti-US organization.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

Is there any
quote in particular you can show me that claims
Chirac supports Saddam?

France was providing support and guidance to Hussain up till the opening
strikes of OIF began. Whether that was Chirac's personal idea or not will be
difficult to answer, but the nation of France was aiding Hussain as late as
March 2003.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

The European press was not attacking Bush for not being good at
public relations, it was much more personal.

I think you should expect that when you start pointing the finger
at someone. It provokes.

Can you explain how Presidential candidate Bush provoked Europe? Was it his
unappologetic "America first" theme? Why is this never acceptable for the
United States, but completely acceptable for European nations to put themselves
first?


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"