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Radio Call Entering Holding



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 1st 07, 07:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Dennis Johnson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 44
Default Radio Call Entering Holding

With help from the people on this newsgroup, I'm happy to announce that I
passed my IPC!

One thing that came up on my flight was that I didn't announce that I was
entering holding and my altitude.

The 2006 AIM 5-3-3 a. 1. (f) requires reporting to ATC, whether in radar
contact or not, "The time and altitude...upon reaching a holding fix..."

However, the FAA's "Instrument Flying Handbook" FAA-H-8083-15, dated 2001,
says on page10-8 that a report entering holding is not required if in radar
contact.

Obviously, they contradict each other. I told the instructor pilot that I
had chosen to go with the "Instrument Flying Handbook" version and not make
a report to ATC because it seemed to me that if I was in radar contact, the
controller would see it happening.

So, what do you think? Which FAA book is wrong? Why does the controller
need reminding that I'm entering holding when I'm in radar contact?

Thanks,
Dennis


  #2  
Old October 1st 07, 08:04 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Jim Macklin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,070
Default Radio Call Entering Holding

Rules and procedures change, they are not static.

Your answer is in the dates you cited.


"Dennis Johnson" wrote in message
. ..
| With help from the people on this newsgroup, I'm happy to
announce that I
| passed my IPC!
|
| One thing that came up on my flight was that I didn't
announce that I was
| entering holding and my altitude.
|
| The 2006 AIM 5-3-3 a. 1. (f) requires reporting to ATC,
whether in radar
| contact or not, "The time and altitude...upon reaching a
holding fix..."
|
| However, the FAA's "Instrument Flying Handbook"
FAA-H-8083-15, dated 2001,
| says on page10-8 that a report entering holding is not
required if in radar
| contact.
|
| Obviously, they contradict each other. I told the
instructor pilot that I
| had chosen to go with the "Instrument Flying Handbook"
version and not make
| a report to ATC because it seemed to me that if I was in
radar contact, the
| controller would see it happening.
|
| So, what do you think? Which FAA book is wrong? Why does
the controller
| need reminding that I'm entering holding when I'm in radar
contact?
|
| Thanks,
| Dennis
|
|


  #3  
Old October 1st 07, 08:46 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Mark Hansen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 420
Default Radio Call Entering Holding

On 10/01/07 11:44, Dennis Johnson wrote:
With help from the people on this newsgroup, I'm happy to announce that I
passed my IPC!

One thing that came up on my flight was that I didn't announce that I was
entering holding and my altitude.

The 2006 AIM 5-3-3 a. 1. (f) requires reporting to ATC, whether in radar
contact or not, "The time and altitude...upon reaching a holding fix..."

However, the FAA's "Instrument Flying Handbook" FAA-H-8083-15, dated 2001,
says on page10-8 that a report entering holding is not required if in radar
contact.


Hmmm, 2001 - that's pretty old. There's a 2007 version out there. In that
section, here is what it said under the 'At all times' category:

f) The time and altitude upon reaching a holding fix
or point to which cleared

g) When leaving any assigned holding fix or point

NOTE - The reports in (f) and (g) may be omitted
by pilots of aircraft involved in instrument
training at military terminal area facilities when
radar service is being provided.

So maybe it's time to get the new book?


Obviously, they contradict each other. I told the instructor pilot that I
had chosen to go with the "Instrument Flying Handbook" version and not make
a report to ATC because it seemed to me that if I was in radar contact, the
controller would see it happening.

So, what do you think? Which FAA book is wrong? Why does the controller
need reminding that I'm entering holding when I'm in radar contact?

Thanks,
Dennis





--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA
  #4  
Old October 1st 07, 10:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Bob Gardner
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 315
Default Radio Call Entering Holding

I have noticed over the years that many pilots assume that the controller is
watching their data block like a hawk, ready to pick up any error,
diversion, or navigational situation. Tain't so. Once the controller has
transmitted the holding instructions and you have acknowledged them, he or
she assumes that you are going to carry them out and switches to watching
other traffic. Speak up.

Bob Gardner

"Dennis Johnson" wrote in message
. ..
With help from the people on this newsgroup, I'm happy to announce that I
passed my IPC!

One thing that came up on my flight was that I didn't announce that I was
entering holding and my altitude.

The 2006 AIM 5-3-3 a. 1. (f) requires reporting to ATC, whether in radar
contact or not, "The time and altitude...upon reaching a holding fix..."

However, the FAA's "Instrument Flying Handbook" FAA-H-8083-15, dated 2001,
says on page10-8 that a report entering holding is not required if in
radar contact.

Obviously, they contradict each other. I told the instructor pilot that I
had chosen to go with the "Instrument Flying Handbook" version and not
make a report to ATC because it seemed to me that if I was in radar
contact, the controller would see it happening.

So, what do you think? Which FAA book is wrong? Why does the controller
need reminding that I'm entering holding when I'm in radar contact?

Thanks,
Dennis


  #5  
Old October 1st 07, 11:47 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Newps
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,886
Default Radio Call Entering Holding



Dennis Johnson wrote:


So, what do you think? Which FAA book is wrong? Why does the controller
need reminding that I'm entering holding when I'm in radar contact?


A radar controller never needs to know you have entered holding. A
useless call. If he needs a report of any kind he will ask.
  #6  
Old October 2nd 07, 12:28 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Roy Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 478
Default Radio Call Entering Holding

In article ,
"Dennis Johnson" wrote:

So, what do you think? Which FAA book is wrong? Why does the controller
need reminding that I'm entering holding when I'm in radar contact?


The controller told you to hold, and he's watching you hold on radar. He
doesn't need you to report entering the hold. If you follow much of what
the AIM tells you to do, you'll be assured of being up to the minute on the
latest 1950's procedures.
  #7  
Old October 2nd 07, 12:46 AM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Bob Gardner
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 315
Default Radio Call Entering Holding

I would think that a pilot on a checkride or IPC would be well advised to
follow provisions of the AIM.

Bob Gardner

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Dennis Johnson" wrote:

So, what do you think? Which FAA book is wrong? Why does the controller
need reminding that I'm entering holding when I'm in radar contact?


The controller told you to hold, and he's watching you hold on radar. He
doesn't need you to report entering the hold. If you follow much of what
the AIM tells you to do, you'll be assured of being up to the minute on
the
latest 1950's procedures.


  #8  
Old October 2nd 07, 03:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
B
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 73
Default Radio Call Entering Holding

Roy Smith wrote:

In article ,
"Dennis Johnson" wrote:


So, what do you think? Which FAA book is wrong? Why does the controller
need reminding that I'm entering holding when I'm in radar contact?



The controller told you to hold, and he's watching you hold on radar. He
doesn't need you to report entering the hold. If you follow much of what
the AIM tells you to do, you'll be assured of being up to the minute on the
latest 1950's procedures.


You indeed follow the AIM. Having said that, controllers don't usually
watch holding patterns.
  #9  
Old October 2nd 07, 04:29 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Jim Macklin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,070
Default Radio Call Entering Holding

The AIM states that when there is a variance between the AIM
and the FAR, follow the current FAR.



"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
. ..
|I would think that a pilot on a checkride or IPC would be
well advised to
| follow provisions of the AIM.
|
| Bob Gardner
|
| "Roy Smith" wrote in message
| ...
| In article
,
| "Dennis Johnson" wrote:
|
| So, what do you think? Which FAA book is wrong? Why
does the controller
| need reminding that I'm entering holding when I'm in
radar contact?
|
| The controller told you to hold, and he's watching you
hold on radar. He
| doesn't need you to report entering the hold. If you
follow much of what
| the AIM tells you to do, you'll be assured of being up
to the minute on
| the
| latest 1950's procedures.
|


  #10  
Old October 2nd 07, 04:29 PM posted to rec.aviation.ifr
Mark Hansen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 420
Default Radio Call Entering Holding

On 10/02/07 08:29, Jim Macklin wrote:
The AIM states that when there is a variance between the AIM
and the FAR, follow the current FAR.


Is there a variance in this case?




"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
. ..
|I would think that a pilot on a checkride or IPC would be
well advised to
| follow provisions of the AIM.
|
| Bob Gardner
|
| "Roy Smith" wrote in message
| ...
| In article
,
| "Dennis Johnson" wrote:
|
| So, what do you think? Which FAA book is wrong? Why
does the controller
| need reminding that I'm entering holding when I'm in
radar contact?
|
| The controller told you to hold, and he's watching you
hold on radar. He
| doesn't need you to report entering the hold. If you
follow much of what
| the AIM tells you to do, you'll be assured of being up
to the minute on
| the
| latest 1950's procedures.
|





--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane, USUA Ultralight Pilot
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA
 




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