Brazil 737-Embraer Crash

Is anyone else out there wondering what in the heck happened here? For
instance, what about the TCAS systems on both these planes? Were they
working and what did they say? Were they talking to ATC and what was being
said? Were they in cruise flight or were they in the terminal area? Did
the Embraer jet hit the 737 in it's Achilles heel to bring in down nose
first while the smaller jet landed without incident or injury?

Kobra

Kobra wrote:

Is anyone else out there wondering what in the heck happened here? For
instance, what about the TCAS systems on both these planes? Were they
working and what did they say? Were they talking to ATC and what was being
said? Were they in cruise flight or were they in the terminal area? Did
the Embraer jet hit the 737 in it's Achilles heel to bring in down nose
first while the smaller jet landed without incident or injury?

Hard to say with what little data has come to light thus far. I did
read today that they are holding the American pilots hostage until they
investigate further.

If the wingtip of the small jet sliced through the cockpit of the 737,
it wouldn't be hard to bring it down.

Matt

"Kobra" wrote:

Is anyone else out there wondering what in the heck happened here?
For instance, what about the TCAS systems on both these planes?

The news reports so far are very vague. Not sure if I would put much
credence in any of the so-called facts released so far.

One of the Brazilian investigators was quoted as saying the transponder on
the Legacy was turned off at some point, and that it was flying northwest
at 37,000 feet, instead of 36,000 feet that had been authorized by ATC.

Other reports say that one ATC center was handling the Boeing, and another
handling the Legacy. The area where they supposedly collided, over the
jungle, does not have good radar coverage, so they might not have even been
tracked on radar.

Did the Embraer jet hit the 737 in it's Achilles heel
to bring in down nose first while the smaller jet landed without
incident or injury?

The wreckage is scattered over a wide area, suggesting a breakup.

James Robinson wrote:
"Kobra" wrote:


The wreckage is scattered over a wide area, suggesting a breakup.

If that is true it may indicate that the wingtip of the embraer took
off the vertical stab of the 737 which would cause it to yaw out of
control and break up much like the Airbus A310 did in New York when it
lost its vertical stab...

Dean

Matt Whiting wrote:
I did read today that they are holding the American pilots hostage
until they investigate further.

How does detaining them in the course of a criminal investigation
constitute holding them hostage?

Dave S wrote:
Matt Whiting wrote:
I did read today that they are holding the American pilots hostage
until they investigate further.

How does detaining them in the course of a criminal investigation
constitute holding them hostage?

Because the Brazilian government has zero reason to suspect criminal
action on their part.

Let's not forget that the 737 crew could have caused the accident, but
not one's even thinking of that option.

Dave S schrieb:

How does detaining them in the course of a criminal investigation
constitute holding them hostage?

They are not holding hostage, they are just not allowed to leave the
country. For good reason: I doubt the USA would be willing to extradite
their citicens to Brasil for a trial if asked to do so.

Stefan

Emily wrote:

Dave S wrote:

How does detaining them in the course of a criminal investigation
constitute holding them hostage?

Because the Brazilian government has zero reason to suspect criminal
action on their part.

Let's not forget that the 737 crew could have caused the accident, but
not one's even thinking of that option.

First, they are not being detained. The government is holding their
passports so they can't leave the country. The US would probably do the
same if a foreign national was involved in an such a major incident under
suspicious circumstances.

Second, the early analysis of the recorders and ATC logs suggests that
the transponder on the Legacy stopped functioning sometime before the
collision, and started functioning again after the collision. the
investigators want to determine if it was deliberate or a technical
fault.

The Brazilians also claim that the crew on the Legacy "ignored" an ATC
request to change altitude before the collision. They were flying at an
odd altitude (37,000 ft) in a northwest direction, and had been told to
descend to 36,000. While the crew didn't respond to radio calls before
the collision, they got in contact with ATC after the collision.

The judge who ordered the passports held felt there was enough evidence
to warrant holding their passports until an investigation into possible
negligence could be completed.

I haven't seen anything yet to explain why the 737 wouldn't have been
told to change course or altitude by ATC with the Legacy not reponding.
However, the news reports are really vague and incomplete, so I'm not
sure anything reported so far about the collision can be taken as fact.

The Embraer was northwest bound at FL370. The 737 southeast bound (I
think). The Embraer was supposed to be at FL360 from what I've heard.
Has anyone read a report on the ATC clearances given?

Then of course I am really scratching my head about 2 TCAS "failures" or
at least TCAS being ignored. Sad.

KC

Emily wrote:


Let's not forget that the 737 crew could have caused the accident, but
not one's even thinking of that option.

Kevin Clarke wrote:

Then of course I am really scratching my head about 2 TCAS "failures" or
at least TCAS being ignored. Sad.

TCAS only works with both transponders working. One was not working.