Mxsmanic , IFR sensations, and some other stuff

It seems to me the better pilots use all the clues they have
available, the physiological ones as well as those presented by the
panel, to maintain a sense of the airplane's attitude. We react to
'bumps' and the like long before the instruments indicate their
effect. We are an integrated 'package' with the airplane. No
instrument in our airplane will tell us we are picking up ice, but a
flashlight out along the leading edge will. At night no instrument
will tell us we are in a cloud, but the anti collision lights will.
When getting close to MDA, and including the windscreen in your
instrument scan so you can transition to visual is not an
instrumentation issue. If it were not for the physical effects, the
wind noise, the way the control feel changes with airspeed, and the
like, we might just as well be flying sims. Except of course sims
don't take us to other destinations, and it's the going to some other
place that really drives our particular use of general aviation.



On May 19, 4:34 pm, " wrote:
On May 19, 2:10 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:

When every once of common sense,
physical sensation, charts floating, and g's pressing on your body tell
you you need to push, and your gyro panel is suspect, go immediately to
primary panel to verify.

Dudley,

How about the inverse, which I have been emphasizing in my
experiences? Would I not be saying the same thing?

Gyro tumbled in a position where I went from normal pitch to a 20
degree pitch up and I DID NOT feel the G's expected? After all the
airplane doesn't care if it's VMC or IMC outside the airframe so to
speak, so if I see that pitch change in VMC and get the seat of the
pants feelings of positive G, I would expect the same in IMC.

That lack of feeling flagged the HI which made me go to secondary
instruments. Would that not be the same thing as you describe above
(not to the extreme of floating charts) but in reverse?

In otherwords, I am catching the situation at hand before it became a
"control the airplane issue" by using my sensory feelings in the seat
of my pants against visual aids (in this case my instruments in IMC)
that changed without a corresponding seat of the pants feeling change.

For capturing the ILS below the glide slope, add power, no seat of the
pants feeling, flags me to check engine instrumentation or outside
temp probe for icing. In all what I am saying is that it supplements
and verifies the instrumentation based on power inputs (reduction or
adding). No different visually so to speak, if I look out the
windscreen or look at the AI and associated instruments in my scan.

As Gatts said, it's not being used for zero zero landings, but a
supplement to verify what my eyes say. The feeling should match what
my eyes say for POWER inputs no matter what meterological conditions
are outside the airplane. Again, not inner ear or head feelings, but
the seat of the pants feeling. Whether I look outside the windscreen
at the horizon or look at the AI, the feeling in the seat of the pants
should be the same. Any discrepancy for that feeling should be
resolved.

If both the gyro panel AND the primary panel tell you nothing, you've
got SERIOUS problems :-)

Amen on that and no seat of the pants skill will get you out of that.
That is called LUCK. And lots of good luck will you need! :-)))

gatt wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote:
gatt wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote:

I think what might be confusing some people reading this thread is
that even though the pilot should always be avoiding physical
sensation as a cue to perform an action while on instruments, Normal
scan technique involves the constant presence of physical sensations.
This means tht you are literally cross checking physical sensation
constantly against what the instruments are telling you. The trick to
staying alive is in being aware of these physical sensations but
accepting without question what the clocks are telling you.

Thanks, Dudley. I think that pretty much boils it down.

That funny buffeting feeling and mushiness of controls on a long apprach
might tell you to that it's time to get your eyes off the glide slope
needle and scan the instrument panel. An alert pilot wouldn't dismiss
it as turbulence, but at the same time he wouldn't panic and shove the
nose forward, either.

-c
Exactly. It's not that the senses aren't there. They are. It's that when
you ACT, you act on what the instruments are telling you, if they
coincide with the sensation, all well and good, but you NEVER act on a
sensation while IFR!

--
Dudley Henriques

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...



Where's your link for all that nonsense dip****, or is Tucker whispering in
your ear?

"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...

Not because he didn't trust, them fjukkwit. he didn't know how to use
them.

And you are not a "newbie" You're an idiot and will always be an idiot.



How would you know retard, you couldn't find your ass with both hands.

"Maxwell" luv2^fly99@cox.^net wrote in
:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...



Where's your link for all that nonsense dip****, or is Tucker
whispering in your ear?




Oh ouch. My self esteem is plummeting!



Bertie

"Maxwell" luv2^fly99@cox.^net wrote in news:2KmYj.5271$D21.4851
@newsfe20.lga:


"Bertie the Bunyip" wrote in message
...

Not because he didn't trust, them fjukkwit. he didn't know how to use
them.

And you are not a "newbie" You're an idiot and will always be an
idiot.



How would you know retard, you couldn't find your ass with both hands.




Sure i can, You;'re right here.


Bertie

" wrote in news:7599cbec-54dc-4e67-
:

On May 19, 3:57*pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:

That lack of feeling flagged the HI which made me go to secondary
instruments. *

For capturing the ILS below the glide slope, add power, no seat of
the
pants feeling, flags me to check engine instrumentation or outside
temp probe for icing. *

There is only one golden rule really on physical sensation. No matter
how much you feel it might be useful to use it as a cue that causes
you
to act on it......DON'T! Expand the scan instead.

Dudley,

I snipped out the extraneous part of my post to I think bring home
exactly what you are saying.

In my paragraphs, am I not saying the very same thing (expanding my
scan?) based on an absence or contradictory feeling?

Ever post I have put, I have emphasized, that I went to secondary
instrumentation.

My action on a errant feeling was a cue to expand my scan when
something didn't feel right.

Again, NONE OF THE ABOVE applies to leans or inner ear effects, the
FAA covers that very well.

I am talking action / reaction based on the AI indication of added
power or a yank on the yoke (display of pitch up), and it lacked in
the seat of my pants. If one uses the corresponding and EXPECTED
feeling, this will make an instrument pilot just that more intimate
with the environment they sit in. If you don't get that expected
feeling, time to cross check what you are looking at.

I think that I am talking out my scenario as if I am in the plane,
just not saying as eloquently as you are about expanding my
scan? :-))))

I am expanding it by going to secondary instrumentation to verify the
accuracy of my primary (in this case the AI) and saw uh uh, looks to
me AI needs to be question based on VSI and airspeed. (OAT was a cozy
65 degrees so icing wasn't even a remote consideration). Saw my
ground track ticking off degrees on the GPS, yet my DG was rock solid
steady. Two big signals right off the bat said vacuum and easy to
diagnose. All because I didn't feel the g's in my britches and all
diagnosed within 15 to 20 seconds.

On my airplane status.....

A&P pulled everything out on the vacuum system and sees nothing wrong,
but DG did ghost permanently when I went to take a test flight
yesterday, so new DG is coming (under warranty). He said maybe some
"trash" got in the lines causing the instrument air gauge to show
abnormally high. I will test fly the bird tomorrow after DG is
installed (obviously in VMC conditions) to verify that all is
healthy.

Will put the DG to it's test with a few steep turns.in both
directions ;-) Always nice to have an excuse to do some VFR airwork!


As usal, it's the three blind guys and the elephant thing....


Bertie

On May 19, 3:57*pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:

That lack of feeling flagged the HI which made me go to secondary
instruments. *

For capturing the ILS below the glide slope, add power, no seat of the
pants feeling, flags me to check engine instrumentation or outside
temp probe for icing. *

There is only one golden rule really on physical sensation. No matter
how much you feel it might be useful to use it as a cue that causes you
to act on it......DON'T! Expand the scan instead.

Dudley,

I snipped out the extraneous part of my post to I think bring home
exactly what you are saying.

In my paragraphs, am I not saying the very same thing (expanding my
scan?) based on an absence or contradictory feeling?

Ever post I have put, I have emphasized, that I went to secondary
instrumentation.

My action on a errant feeling was a cue to expand my scan when
something didn't feel right.

Again, NONE OF THE ABOVE applies to leans or inner ear effects, the
FAA covers that very well.

I am talking action / reaction based on the AI indication of added
power or a yank on the yoke (display of pitch up), and it lacked in
the seat of my pants. If one uses the corresponding and EXPECTED
feeling, this will make an instrument pilot just that more intimate
with the environment they sit in. If you don't get that expected
feeling, time to cross check what you are looking at.

I think that I am talking out my scenario as if I am in the plane,
just not saying as eloquently as you are about expanding my
scan? :-))))

I am expanding it by going to secondary instrumentation to verify the
accuracy of my primary (in this case the AI) and saw uh uh, looks to
me AI needs to be question based on VSI and airspeed. (OAT was a cozy
65 degrees so icing wasn't even a remote consideration). Saw my
ground track ticking off degrees on the GPS, yet my DG was rock solid
steady. Two big signals right off the bat said vacuum and easy to
diagnose. All because I didn't feel the g's in my britches and all
diagnosed within 15 to 20 seconds.

On my airplane status.....

A&P pulled everything out on the vacuum system and sees nothing wrong,
but DG did ghost permanently when I went to take a test flight
yesterday, so new DG is coming (under warranty). He said maybe some
"trash" got in the lines causing the instrument air gauge to show
abnormally high. I will test fly the bird tomorrow after DG is
installed (obviously in VMC conditions) to verify that all is
healthy.

Will put the DG to it's test with a few steep turns.in both
directions ;-) Always nice to have an excuse to do some VFR airwork!

On May 19, 11:06*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
A Lieberman writes:
You tell me.

It depends on the aircraft.

Read my post. I already said what I fly. You got my tail number,
it's on that as well.

On May 19, 3:57*pm, Tina wrote:

Except of course sims
don't take us to other destinations,

It doesn't???? Nawwww, don't tell Mx this!

Everything I read on Mx threads, he's traveled the world, from the
Grand Canyon tour to the most complex Bravo airspace we probably
haven't encountered in our lives.

Sorry, couldn't resist, return back to the regularly scheduled
thread! :-))))