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resign commission for warrant officer questions



 
 
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  #11  
Old June 18th 04, 05:42 PM
Ron
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Obviously, Art is stuck in 1945. Sq, Grp, and Wg commanders don't usually
fly lead or be the first over the target today. In fact, every Grp or Wg
commander I've worked for since 1986 wasn't qualified under AF regs to fly
lead. Thats what they have senior captains and majors for.



But sure as hell not warrant officers.Give up a commision for a lower rank?
Beyond my comprehension in 1945 or at any other time. Well, this is a
different generation I guess.
.



Arthur Kramer


There is always the story of Michael Novosel, who was a B-24 and B-29s during
WW2, and was an reserve USAF LTC and wanted to go back to active duty and fly
when the Vietnam unpleasentness started, even though he was old enough to
retire

USAF would not let him, so he went to the army as a warrant officer, learned to
fly helicopters, and flew 2345 medivac missions and earned the CMOH.


Ron
PA-31T Cheyenne II
Maharashtra Weather Modification Program
Pune, India

  #12  
Old June 18th 04, 05:55 PM
ArtKramr
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Subject: resign commission for warrant officer questions
From: 362436 (Ron)
Date: 6/18/04 9:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

Obviously, Art is stuck in 1945. Sq, Grp, and Wg commanders don't usually
fly lead or be the first over the target today. In fact, every Grp or Wg
commander I've worked for since 1986 wasn't qualified under AF regs to fly
lead. Thats what they have senior captains and majors for.



But sure as hell not warrant officers.Give up a commision for a lower rank?
Beyond my comprehension in 1945 or at any other time. Well, this is a
different generation I guess.
.



Arthur Kramer


There is always the story of Michael Novosel, who was a B-24 and B-29s during
WW2, and was an reserve USAF LTC and wanted to go back to active duty and fly
when the Vietnam unpleasentness started, even though he was old enough to
retire

USAF would not let him, so he went to the army as a warrant officer, learned
to
fly helicopters, and flew 2345 medivac missions and earned the CMOH.


Ron
PA-31T Cheyenne II
Maharashtra Weather Modification Program
Pune, India



That is very inspirational. Where do I sign up. Think there are any B-26's with
Nordens left? Every Lt. Col after full combat tour should turn warrant officer
and fly another tour. But only after a full combat tour is completed. Desks
jockeys not invited.




Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

  #13  
Old June 18th 04, 06:13 PM
Kevin Brooks
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"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: resign commission for warrant officer questions
From: 362436 (Ron)
Date: 6/18/04 9:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

Obviously, Art is stuck in 1945. Sq, Grp, and Wg commanders don't

usually
fly lead or be the first over the target today. In fact, every Grp or

Wg
commander I've worked for since 1986 wasn't qualified under AF regs to

fly
lead. Thats what they have senior captains and majors for.


But sure as hell not warrant officers.Give up a commision for a lower

rank?
Beyond my comprehension in 1945 or at any other time. Well, this is a
different generation I guess.
.



Arthur Kramer


There is always the story of Michael Novosel, who was a B-24 and B-29s

during
WW2, and was an reserve USAF LTC and wanted to go back to active duty and

fly
when the Vietnam unpleasentness started, even though he was old enough to
retire

USAF would not let him, so he went to the army as a warrant officer,

learned
to
fly helicopters, and flew 2345 medivac missions and earned the CMOH.


Ron
PA-31T Cheyenne II
Maharashtra Weather Modification Program
Pune, India



That is very inspirational.


The guy won the Medal--it sure as hell should be inspirational. The poser
did not mention that Novosel also flew at least part of a combat tour with
his son in the same outfit, IIRC. Unlike you, Novosel was not unduly
impressed by his own rank, and found that both flying and duty mattered more
to him than the trappings and privaledges of rank--I can see where you would
find these qualities completely alien, though.

Where do I sign up. Think there are any B-26's with
Nordens left? Every Lt. Col after full combat tour should turn warrant

officer
and fly another tour. But only after a full combat tour is completed.

Desks
jockeys not invited.


Let's see, did YOU complete a "full combat tour"? I have never heard you
mention completing your tour and being rotated back stateside while the war
was ongoing--so I guess you are no better than that desk jockey, eh?

Brooks





Arthur Kramer



  #14  
Old June 18th 04, 10:33 PM
Ragnar
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"BUFDRVR" wrote in message
...
Sq, Grp, and Wg commanders don't usually
fly lead or be the first over the target today.


Not true.

In fact, every Grp or Wg
commander I've worked for since 1986 wasn't qualified under AF regs to

fly
lead.


Hmmm, every group or wing commander I've known was a fully qualified

instructor
not only capable of leading a formation or acting as a mission commander,

but
capable of training others to do so.


Then we've been in different "real Air Forces".


  #18  
Old June 19th 04, 04:39 AM
BUFDRVR
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Ragnar wrote:

Then we've been in different "real Air Forces".


I'm puzzled. Granted, I'm relatively "new" in the big scheme of things, but I
can recall squadron, group and yes wing commanders leading flights in nearly
every conflict since the birth of an independant Air Force. LeMay, as Group
commander led his group in its part in the Scweinfurt-Regensberg mission, so it
appears senior leaders have been leading combat strikes since at least WWII.
Billy Mitchell flew in the St. Mihel offensive, and he was the second ranking
U.S. aviator in France. I'm not doubting your experience, just curious as to
what time period we're comparing here?


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"
  #20  
Old June 19th 04, 03:39 PM
Kevin Brooks
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"Cub Driver" wrote in message
...
On 19 Jun 2004 03:39:49 GMT, (BUFDRVR) wrote:

I'm puzzled. Granted, I'm relatively "new" in the big scheme of things,

but I
can recall squadron, group and yes wing commanders leading flights in

nearly
every conflict since the birth of an independant Air Force.


The question was asked by a guy in army aviation. Does the army have
wing commanders?

I think I understand what he's after, besides getting on active duty.
(Good for him!) He wants to fly too, perhaps. What for a career path
does an army (commissioned) officer have in aviation? Forty years ago
all helicopter pilots were WOs, but I believe that's no longer true.
Indeed, I seem to recall a father-son team later in the Vietnam war,
where dad was an officer and son was a WO.


I don't believe the Army has ever had an exclusively WO flying force;
commissioned officers did indeed fly helos forty years ago. But the majority
of the pilot force has been, and continues to be, provided by the WO side of
the house. And I believe your recollection is a bit off--the father-son team
you refer to was probably the Novosel's, where the father had indeed at one
time been a commissioned officer (former B-29 pilot) who later took a
warrant to fly helos for the Army; he and his son were both WO's, both
flying Dustoff UH-1H's in Vietnam in the same unit, IIRC. As Ron noted
earlier, the senior Novosel was awarded the MoH for action during that
conflict. He died eight or ten years ago, again IIRC.

Brooks



all the best -- Dan Ford
email:
(put Cubdriver in subject line)

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