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ILS approach to near minimums - Video



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 26th 09, 04:10 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
[email protected]
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Posts: 838
Default ILS approach to near minimums - Video

First time for me going down to near ILS minimums by myself. Video
includes how I brief my IFR approaches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCk_RRMemnM

Video I think does a good job on demonstrating why the runway may not
be always exactly in front of you after wind correction angle
considerations and ONLY being 1/2 dot off the localizer.

I flew for 2.5 hours waiting for ceilings to climb above 500 AGL. My
next video will contain the VOR alpha back into Madison executed at
minimums. ATC and I had an on air "bet" going on whether I'd make it
in. To my surprise, I would have lost that bet.
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  #2  
Old September 27th 09, 02:46 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
a[_3_]
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Posts: 562
Default ILS approach to near minimums - Video

On Sep 26, 11:10*am, " wrote:
First time for me going down to near ILS minimums by myself. Video
includes how I brief my IFR approaches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCk_RRMemnM

Video I think does a good job on demonstrating why the runway may not
be always exactly in front of you after wind correction angle
considerations and ONLY being 1/2 dot off the localizer.

I flew for 2.5 hours waiting for ceilings to climb above 500 AGL. *My
next video will contain the VOR alpha back into Madison executed at
minimums. ATC and I had an on air "bet" going on whether I'd make it
in. *To my surprise, I would have lost that bet.


I noticed when you broke out at 500 feet agl you aligned the axis of
the airplane with the runway then tended to drift a little left, and
coordinated turned yourself onto the center line again. Absolutely
nothing wrong with that, but my habit is a little different. I
continue to fly the localizer at whatever crab angle I need to keep
the needle centered and when much lower drop the windward wing, kick
the airplane into alignment and transition to a cross wind landing.
It would be interesting for the thread to address the advantanges and
disadvantages of each method.

  #3  
Old September 27th 09, 03:42 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
BeechSundowner
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Posts: 138
Default ILS approach to near minimums - Video

On Sep 26, 8:46*pm, a wrote:
On Sep 26, 11:10*am, " wrote:


I noticed when you broke out at 500 feet agl you aligned the axis of
the airplane with the runway then tended to drift a little left, and
coordinated turned yourself onto the center line again. Absolutely
nothing wrong with that, but my habit is a little different. I
continue to fly the localizer at whatever crab angle I need *to keep
the needle centered and when much lower *drop the windward wing, kick
the airplane into alignment *and transition to a cross wind landing.
It would be interesting for the thread to address the advantanges and
disadvantages of each method.


A,

While IMC, I do exactly what you say, fly the crab all the way down.
Problem and why you see me drift left when I break out was I was 1/2
dot off fthe localizer to the right, so in order to find the
centerline, it required a slight turn to the left when I broke out 512
MSL or 200 AGL.

You can see my "reintercept" of the centerline from 7:20 to to 7:30 by
watching the point of the cowling in relationship to the runway
centerline. During this 10 seconds, I was correcting the right of the
localizer problem.

Couple of thoughts, as I did not even realize until breaking out that
I had that much of a crab as I was so focused on maintaining the
localizer. . It took several adjustments of the header bug on descent
to find that sweet spot in tracking. When I broke out, needless to
say I was surprised at my crab angle (like, oh crap, where's the
runway!), and thus the sharp "response on the yoke" My subsequent
approaches were not that abrupt on the yoke as I was better prepared.

This was a quartering "downwind landing" 34L was closed so only 16L
was available.

It's fun to Monday QB my videos and I sincerely appreciate this kind
of feedback!
  #4  
Old September 27th 09, 08:04 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
a[_3_]
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Posts: 562
Default ILS approach to near minimums - Video

On Sep 26, 10:42*pm, BeechSundowner wrote:
On Sep 26, 8:46*pm, a wrote:

On Sep 26, 11:10*am, " wrote:
I noticed when you broke out at 500 feet agl you aligned the axis of
the airplane with the runway then tended to drift a little left, and
coordinated turned yourself onto the center line again. Absolutely
nothing wrong with that, but my habit is a little different. I
continue to fly the localizer at whatever crab angle I need *to keep
the needle centered and when much lower *drop the windward wing, kick
the airplane into alignment *and transition to a cross wind landing.
It would be interesting for the thread to address the advantanges and
disadvantages of each method.


A,

While IMC, I do exactly what you say, fly the crab all the way down.
Problem and why you see me drift left when I break out was I was 1/2
dot off fthe localizer to the right, so in order to find the
centerline, it required a slight turn to the left when I broke out 512
MSL or *200 AGL.

You can see my "reintercept" of the centerline from 7:20 to to 7:30 by
watching the point of the cowling in relationship to the runway
centerline. *During this 10 seconds, I was correcting the right of the
localizer problem.

Couple of thoughts, as I did not even realize until breaking out that
I had that much of a crab as I was so focused on maintaining the
localizer. . *It took several adjustments of the header bug on descent
to find that sweet spot in tracking. *When I broke out, needless to
say I was surprised at my crab angle (like, oh crap, where's the
runway!), and thus the sharp "response on the yoke" *My subsequent
approaches were not that abrupt on the yoke as I was better prepared.

This was a quartering "downwind landing" *34L was closed so only 16L
was available.

It's fun to Monday QB my videos and I sincerely appreciate this kind
of feedback!


It's not intended as Monday morning quarterbacking. I noticed you did
something different than the way I do, and asked about it. It's
rather fun when sliding down the glideslope to look at the dg and
compare it to the expected heading. I've seen 20 degrees difference at
the OM change to 10 degrees at minimums -- you can tell the pax where
to look for the runway environment if you're lucky enough to have an
extra pair of eyes in the cockpit. I coach the person in the right
hand seat to say 'runway lights in sight'.

This is also worth trying, especially in a low wing airplane where
ground effect is more obvious. When you have a safety pilot aboard, if
there is not much wind stay under the hood until you feel ground
effect. What we do is fly glide slope to the MM, then just the
localizer and start backng off the throttle a bit. It's a confidence
builder to know you can fly to touchdown that way. You'll likely
bounce -- I do at least -- but I know in the worst conditons (think
snow sqaull at your alternate) if I have no choice I can get on the
ground more or less safely. Keeping the localizer centered down low
is 'entertaining'..
  #5  
Old September 27th 09, 06:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
D Ramapriya
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Posts: 115
Default ILS approach to near minimums - Video

On Sep 26, 7:10*pm, " wrote:
First time for me going down to near ILS minimums by myself. Video
includes how I brief my IFR approaches.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCk_RRMemnM



Jeez, in most videos I've seen of yours, the stall horn has sounded
just before touchdown. I bet you like hairy landings

Very good video (and audio) quality, btw. Thanks!

Ramapriya
  #6  
Old September 27th 09, 06:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
BeechSundowner
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Posts: 138
Default ILS approach to near minimums - Video

On Sep 27, 12:26*pm, D Ramapriya wrote:

Jeez, in most videos I've seen of yours, the stall horn has sounded
just before touchdown. I bet you like hairy landings

Very good video (and audio) quality, btw. Thanks!

Ramapriya


Thanks for the compliment Ramapriva,

I was just happy to hit the center line LOL. Stall horn did go off at
7:59, but I just didn't drag it like I usually do since I had the
Southwest flight behind me barreling down the glide slope.
  #7  
Old September 28th 09, 06:36 AM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
D Ramapriya
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Posts: 115
Default ILS approach to near minimums - Video

On Sep 28, 8:36*am, Clark wrote:
D Ramapriya wrote in news:2f5fa47a-a9a0-4d76-897e-
:

Jeez, in most videos I've seen of yours, the stall horn has sounded
just before touchdown. I bet you like hairy landings


Just an educational point: a perfect landing includes a full stall about a
foot off the ground. Typically the stall horn will sound about 5 to 10 knots
above the actual stall. Alan's landings appear to be quite good.

In other words, there is no harm in stalling within a few inches of the
runway. On the other hand, there can be great harm in attempting to land way
to fast.



Thanks, mate. Won't this lead to dodgy finals in a situation where the
headwind tails off for some reason (a gust or some such)?

Ramapriya
  #8  
Old September 28th 09, 05:28 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Panic
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Posts: 42
Default ILS approach to near minimums - Video

That crab "correction" was the hardest thing to get used to when I flew the
B-52H back in the early 60s. We had a little chart near the rudder control
knob to enter the angle and velocity of the crosswind, then we pulled up on
the knob and cranked it to the chart value to hydraulically move the main
gear so that it would be aligned with the runway even though we landed still
in a crab. We could crank up to 20 of alignment correction.

All of my previous years, once we finally saw the runway at very low
altitude we'd kick out the crab and use wing low cross control for landing.
GCA minimums were 100' ceiling. You had to psyche yourself ahead of time to
insure that when you finally spotted the runway you'd leave the crab in and
land that way. (but...make sure you entered the crab correction in the
right direction)


"BeechSundowner" wrote in message
...
On Sep 26, 8:46 pm, a wrote:
On Sep 26, 11:10 am, " wrote:


I noticed when you broke out at 500 feet agl you aligned the axis of
the airplane with the runway then tended to drift a little left, and
coordinated turned yourself onto the center line again. Absolutely
nothing wrong with that, but my habit is a little different. I
continue to fly the localizer at whatever crab angle I need to keep
the needle centered and when much lower drop the windward wing, kick
the airplane into alignment and transition to a cross wind landing.
It would be interesting for the thread to address the advantanges and
disadvantages of each method.


A,

While IMC, I do exactly what you say, fly the crab all the way down.
Problem and why you see me drift left when I break out was I was 1/2
dot off fthe localizer to the right, so in order to find the
centerline, it required a slight turn to the left when I broke out 512
MSL or 200 AGL.

You can see my "reintercept" of the centerline from 7:20 to to 7:30 by
watching the point of the cowling in relationship to the runway
centerline. During this 10 seconds, I was correcting the right of the
localizer problem.

Couple of thoughts, as I did not even realize until breaking out that
I had that much of a crab as I was so focused on maintaining the
localizer. . It took several adjustments of the header bug on descent
to find that sweet spot in tracking. When I broke out, needless to
say I was surprised at my crab angle (like, oh crap, where's the
runway!), and thus the sharp "response on the yoke" My subsequent
approaches were not that abrupt on the yoke as I was better prepared.

This was a quartering "downwind landing" 34L was closed so only 16L
was available.

It's fun to Monday QB my videos and I sincerely appreciate this kind
of feedback!


  #9  
Old September 28th 09, 06:55 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
a[_3_]
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Posts: 562
Default ILS approach to near minimums - Video

On Sep 28, 1:36*am, D Ramapriya wrote:
On Sep 28, 8:36*am, Clark wrote:

D Ramapriya wrote in news:2f5fa47a-a9a0-4d76-897e-
:


Jeez, in most videos I've seen of yours, the stall horn has sounded
just before touchdown. I bet you like hairy landings


Just an educational point: a perfect landing includes a full stall about a
foot off the ground. Typically the stall horn will sound about 5 to 10 knots
above the actual stall. Alan's landings appear to be quite good.


In other words, there is no harm in stalling within a few inches of the
runway. On the other hand, there can be great harm in attempting to land way
to fast.


Thanks, mate. Won't this lead to dodgy finals in a situation where the
headwind tails off for some reason (a gust or some such)?

Ramapriya

In most of our SELs the stall warning sounds 5 or 8 knots before the
stall. That's a nice margin. The only time I am not going to want the
stall to sound is if there's a big cross wind and I am running out of
rudder authority at low air speeds. Too much airspeed in the flair is,
in this pilot's opinion, the sign of an airplane driver who has not
been trained well. Ditto, for that matter, for the guy who touches
down in a SEL 2000 feet from his turn off, then finds himself driving
the airplane on the ground for an extra 1000 plus feet. A good landing
in my view is where there's a stall warning, throttle aft, touchdown,
and make the turn off without using throttle or break.
  #10  
Old September 28th 09, 11:44 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Morgans[_2_]
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Posts: 3,924
Default ILS approach to near minimums - Video


"a" wrote

A good landing
in my view is where there's a stall warning, throttle aft, touchdown,
and make the turn off without using throttle or break.


Or without using the brakes, in case nothing is broken. ;-)
--
Jim in NC


 




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