Butterfly external display questions

I received a Butterfly external display with my US PowerFLARM core (brick). I also ordered a PowerFLARM Portable so have been able to compare the two.

The alerter volume of my Butterfly external display is much lower than the alerter volume on my portable, even when the Butterfly is a maximum and the portable is at reduced level.

My Butterfly external display also has light leaks along the entire top and bottom edges. These show up as light bars that are significantly brigher than the display itself. The portable display has no visible light leaks.

I contacted Butterfly and asked for comment as I did not wish to approach my dealer until I know whether these characteristics were typical of all production displays.

Butterfly declined to answer my questions and forwarded my enquiry to Lee Kuhlke of FLARM USA. It seems that Butterfly is taking no responsibility for displays that were exported to USA. Lee has so far declined to provide any answer.

So, if you have a Butterfly external display, will you please let me it it has light leaks, and also if the alerter volume is similar to, or significantly lower than, the portable.

Photos of the light leaks available by email.

thanks,

Andy.

On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 3:19:30 PM UTC-5, Andy wrote:
"I received a Butterfly external display with my US PowerFLARM core (brick). I also ordered a PowerFLARM Portable so have been able to compare the two. The alerter volume of my Butterfly external display is much lower than the alerter volume on my portable, even when the Butterfly is a maximum and the portable is at reduced level. My Butterfly external display also has light leaks along the entire top and bottom edges. These show up as light bars that are significantly brigher than the display itself....So, if you have a Butterfly external display, will you please let me it it has light leaks, and also if the alerter volume is similar to, or significantly lower than, the portable."

Andy, my Butterfly external display also has light leaks. They do not appear to be a problem in terms of display visibility.

Warning beep is loud enough that I can hear it in my car while driving with the radio on - but not real loud like my MRX PCAS. Not sure how that will translate into my glider cockpit.

As I also intend to send the PFlarm data to my SN10 and Oudie, hopefully I'll have enough warnings to wake up and look out the window!

Cheers,

Kirk
66

On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 1:31:43 PM UTC-7, kirk.stant wrote:
On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 3:19:30 PM UTC-5, Andy wrote:

"I received a Butterfly external display with my US PowerFLARM core (brick). I also ordered a PowerFLARM Portable so have been able to compare the two. The alerter volume of my Butterfly external display is much lower than the alerter volume on my portable, even when the Butterfly is a maximum and the portable is at reduced level. My Butterfly external display also has light leaks along the entire top and bottom edges. These show up as light bars that are significantly brigher than the display itself....So, if you have a Butterfly external display, will you please let me it it has light leaks, and also if the alerter volume is similar to, or significantly lower than, the portable."



Andy, my Butterfly external display also has light leaks. They do not appear to be a problem in terms of display visibility.



Warning beep is loud enough that I can hear it in my car while driving with the radio on - but not real loud like my MRX PCAS. Not sure how that will translate into my glider cockpit.



As I also intend to send the PFlarm data to my SN10 and Oudie, hopefully I'll have enough warnings to wake up and look out the window!



Cheers,



Kirk

66

I did not notice light leaks from my external display, but the volume is indeed not loud enough, especially if more wind noise is presented. It is definitely not as noticeable as the MRX alerts. I did not compare to powerflram portable. I am also curious if the butterfly in panel display has higher volume.
There are definitely issues with Powerflarm which can and needs to be addressed, yet the lack of any forum or means to provide feedback, ask questions and get answers is starting to really irritate! You would expect that between butterfly, Powerflarm USA and the US dealers, someone will start providing official support, but so far, it seems like everybody is just guessing or figuring things on their own.
Having said that, I am pretty sure that all these issues can be and will be addressed with firmware updates or under warranty, and even with those issues, the Powerflarm as it is now is working well so there is no reason to delay getting one.

Ramy

Ramy

I flew with Power Flarm brick for the first time on Sunday. I flew with two other PF gliders.

I did not see light leaks on the external display. I found the PF alert volume to be more than adequate... down right frightening in fact. The alert volume for transponders was much lower and I think only a single beep. My Butterfly display is at the top of my panel and the red ring for transponder alerts got my attention.

Overall, I thought the PF was fun to fly with because I could more easily track the other gliders. Without exception, PF "saw" gliders long before I did and was very useful for visually finding other gliders.

I think PF will be great in situations where I can't see others. Potential collisions with head on, behind, above and below traffic will almost surely be reduced with PF.

In thermalling situations where I can see other gliders I'm less convinced of PF's utility. Eyes outside the cockpit are still the best device. I did have one alarm while thermalling and it happened as I was leaving a situation I didn't like. I got out before I thought there was a collision risk, but there was no doubt that such a risk was developing. It seems like the alert was about right were I not already monitoring the risk.

I don't know how PF will behave in a real gaggle. I think it will be really loud in the cockpit.

I'm looking forward to flying more with PF. I'm glad to have a PCAS for transponders at last. I abandoned the purchase of Zaon because PF has been coming for years. I'm glad it's here. The PCAS alerts seemed to work well for me, but it was a light traffic day.

I did find the range for picking up other gliders to be wildly variable. It was beyond 6km at times and at other times it was within 1km. I will say neither of the other gliders ever snuck up on me. I flew at least half of the flight with only one other glider and did see the range variability then.

I am frustrated with the lack of support for this product. This forum is the best, and only, source of information. The powerflarm.us site adds little if any value to the paper documentation provided with the unit.

I fly an LS4a and have a TT21.

"There are definitely issues with Powerflarm which can and needs to be
addressed, yet the lack of any forum or means to provide feedback, ask
questions and get answers is starting to really irritate! You would
expect that between butterfly, Powerflarm USA and the US dealers,
someone will start providing official support, but so far, it seems
like everybody is just guessing or figuring things on their own."

I think you just outlined several very good reasons for not getting
one. I am a firm believer in the technology and its usefulness, but I
find the apparent lack of support to be somewhat arrogant. As such, I
have a very hard time paying the not insignificant price for hardware
that has no support, poor (at best) documentation and features that
may or may not work as advertised.

I cancelled my order for the above reasons.

WD

I think it is important to balance the safety that such device provides vs the lack of good support. After flying with Powerflarm for couple of month I can say that although I am frustrated with the lack of support, I wouldn't want to fly again without it, and encourage everyone to get one.
Actually the issue is not lack of support, but perhaps lack of good communication or acceptable web site and manual.

Ramy

On Sep 12, 3:36*am, Ramy wrote:
I think it is important to balance the safety that such device provides vs the lack of good support. After flying with Powerflarm for couple of month I can say that although I am frustrated with the lack of support, I wouldn't want to fly again without it, and encourage everyone to get one.
Actually the issue is not lack of support, but perhaps lack of good communication or acceptable web site and manual.

Ramy

The original post points to lack of support! It also appears there are
warranty issues that neither Butterfly nor PF want to resolve. I was
busy at work and I had no time to install my PF yet. I certainly hope
when I turn the unit on later today I will not have the same issues.

On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 4:19:30 PM UTC-4, Andy wrote:
I received a Butterfly external display with my US PowerFLARM core (brick). I also ordered a PowerFLARM Portable so have been able to compare the two.



The alerter volume of my Butterfly external display is much lower than the alerter volume on my portable, even when the Butterfly is a maximum and the portable is at reduced level.



My Butterfly external display also has light leaks along the entire top and bottom edges. These show up as light bars that are significantly brigher than the display itself. The portable display has no visible light leaks.



I contacted Butterfly and asked for comment as I did not wish to approach my dealer until I know whether these characteristics were typical of all production displays.



Butterfly declined to answer my questions and forwarded my enquiry to Lee Kuhlke of FLARM USA. It seems that Butterfly is taking no responsibility for displays that were exported to USA. Lee has so far declined to provide any answer.



So, if you have a Butterfly external display, will you please let me it it has light leaks, and also if the alerter volume is similar to, or significantly lower than, the portable.



Photos of the light leaks available by email.



thanks,



Andy.

I have been flying with my PF Brick, Butterfly external rectangular display and connected ClearNav for my last 5 flights. My observations are that:
1) the Butterfly external rectangular display audio alerts are very good for PF-to-PF conflicts but extremely deficient in transponder alerts.
2) If my display has "light leaks" I haven't noticed them so not a problem for me. I'll have to check for you next time I take my glider out of the box.

On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 3:19:30 PM UTC-5, Andy wrote:
I received a Butterfly external display with my US PowerFLARM core (brick). I also ordered a PowerFLARM Portable so have been able to compare the two. The alerter volume of my Butterfly external display is much lower than the alerter volume on my portable, even when the Butterfly is a maximum and the portable is at reduced level. My Butterfly external display also has light leaks along the entire top and bottom edges. These show up as light bars that are significantly brigher than the display itself. The portable display has no visible light leaks. I contacted Butterfly and asked for comment as I did not wish to approach my dealer until I know whether these characteristics were typical of all production displays. Butterfly declined to answer my questions and forwarded my enquiry to Lee Kuhlke of FLARM USA. It seems that Butterfly is taking no responsibility for displays that were exported to USA. Lee has so far declined to provide any answer. So, if you have a Butterfly external display, will you please let me it it has light leaks, and also if the alerter volume is similar to, or significantly lower than, the portable. Photos of the light leaks available by email. thanks, Andy.

In a seperate thread I had requested help in getting Flarm contacts to show on my Clearnav. A good suggestion was to insure I had the latest clearnav software uploaded which I have confirmed. I also get the lower case flarm "f" but I am not showing any contacts on the Clearnav screen. I have experimented with all zoom levels and still no luck. Any additional suggestions?

Seperately the range is consistantly around 2.5 miles which is dissapointing given my very careful antenna and gps installation. I certainly hope there is improvement.

On Tuesday, September 11, 2012 1:19:30 PM UTC-7, Andy wrote:

Butterfly did answer my questions a day after forwarding the email to Kuhlke. Kuhlke declined to comment on the light leak photos but did offer to evaluate the unit if I sent it together with return shipping.

I'll share the Butterfly reply here since I know of no other forum for discussing this equipment. This was my second pass at these question and the additional detail of the first pass questions is not included:

I would like an answer from Butterfly whether the light leaks are a defect or if this is typical of all production units.
....It is within the framework of the tolerances and quite normal.

If the hole is for the alerter, I suspect the path to the sound element is
blocked.
...We don´t want a path because of wetness and it don´t have influence on our sound volume tests.

Based on this reply I assume my display is typical of current production.


Andy