FBO (Mercury Air) doubling hanger rent to run off GA at BHM.......is this legal?

3) Finding a place to build a hangar competes with only
some other land uses. Only an idiot would build a home or
a hospital next to 11-29 at KBED.

Gee, must be why they're building a 500 unit apartment complex off the
departure end of RWY 36...

Of course, the battle for that runway has already been lost.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I agree that it not a completly free market. To be completely free there
need to be an infinate number of buyers and sellers.. However the supply is
clearly limited (based on what the community wants) and the price should be
left to market dynamics IMHO.

Personally I would suggest to anyone living in MA that they move if flying
is an important part of their life.

Mike
MU-2


"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
In article , "Mike Rapoport"
wrote:

It's not free supply and demand when the supply is artificially
restricted. Thus the concept of "market rent" doesn't make sense.
In the true supply and demand scenario, increased demand would
increase supply. That isn't possible (a fact you recognize below).

What would you do with real estate in general? Supply is artificially
restricted because there are parks and other open space. There are
undoubtedly people who say the the price of housing is too high because
the
supply of land is artificially restricted by airports.

well, if we want to be ridiculous, we could claim that all land use
is restricted because the earth is limited in size...

What percentage of buildable land (for homes) is held in parks and
open space?

What percentage of buildable land (for hangars) is held hostage
by airport "managers" or by anti-airport NIMBY goons?

--
Bob Noel

"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...
| "C J Campbell" wrote:
| True. And if frogs had wings, no doubt other amazing things would
happen.
|
|
| You are obviously unaware of the giant flying vampire toad of Florida.
:-)
|
| Oh, ****. Florida is only 20 miles away! First it was Formosan termites
from
| New Orleans, now this. I'm surrounded.
| --

The giant flying vampire toad (actually a species of frog -- and the only
toothed frog at that) preys only on golfers. It weighs about 20 pounds and
hides in trees, waiting for golfers to pass underneath. Then it glides down
on a slimy, leathery membrane stretched between its legs, fastens its two,
hollow teeth into the golfer's neck, and sucks his blood. Golfers have
started avoiding golf courses where this toad lives, so the Federal
government declared the toad an endangered species and ordered Florida to
select golfers at random in order to feed the vampires. Florida sued, and
the Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that the Endangered Species Act was not
intended to protect species that deserved to be extinct. Last I heard, the
Supreme Court had ordered that the case be re-heard in another Circuit where
the judges did not play golf in Florida.

Unfortunately, my wife is at least as important part of my life as is flying, so
moving out of the Northeast is not an option (besides, the location needed for
my line of work, high tech electronics, also dictates locating in an area that
is just as restrictive. The infamous Reid-Hillview thing comes to mind). My
complaint is that hangars in this neck of the woods are difficult to obtain at
any price, and hangar rents for an unheated group hangar if you can get in one
are rivaling apartment rents. Several of the airports here have ample land to
erect hangars (Quonset Point, Providence), but the state is not permitting it.

Mike Rapoport wrote:

I agree that it not a completly free market. To be completely free there
need to be an infinate number of buyers and sellers.. However the supply is
clearly limited (based on what the community wants) and the price should be
left to market dynamics IMHO.

Personally I would suggest to anyone living in MA that they move if flying
is an important part of their life.

Mike
MU-2

"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
In article , "Mike Rapoport"
wrote:

It's not free supply and demand when the supply is artificially
restricted. Thus the concept of "market rent" doesn't make sense.
In the true supply and demand scenario, increased demand would
increase supply. That isn't possible (a fact you recognize below).

What would you do with real estate in general? Supply is artificially
restricted because there are parks and other open space. There are
undoubtedly people who say the the price of housing is too high because
the
supply of land is artificially restricted by airports.

well, if we want to be ridiculous, we could claim that all land use
is restricted because the earth is limited in size...

What percentage of buildable land (for homes) is held in parks and
open space?

What percentage of buildable land (for hangars) is held hostage
by airport "managers" or by anti-airport NIMBY goons?

--
Bob Noel

--
--Ray Andraka, P.E.
President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc.
401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950
email
http://www.andraka.com

"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-Benjamin Franklin, 1759

In article , "Peter
Gottlieb" wrote:

[snip]
Now let's say that the price for a hangar went to $5000 per month and
MassPort got this money instead of going through some FBO with MassPort
getting some predetermined fixed amount. The way politics loves money, I
would bet there would be some pressure to build more hangars then.

You'd lose. At KBED, Massport already gets the money from the T-hangars.
Do you see any new T-hangars at KBED?

[snip]

Both hangar space and housing are subsets of real estate in general.
Sure
there are some differences, just as commercial real estate is slightly
different from residential real estate, but overall many of the same
factors
come into play like limited land availability, location, opposition, land
use questions, etc. That's all I am trying to say.

and I was responding to the original claim that they are "exactly"
the same. Sure, there are similar factors. So it would appear that
we pretty much agree. I was going to reply more point by point until
reading your last paragraph (but I did feel compelled to point out that
Massport gets the T-hangar rents already).

--
Bob Noel

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
...
I agree that it not a completly free market. To be completely free there
need to be an infinate number of buyers and sellers.

That is NOT what defines a "Free Market". A free market is defined as the
parties have full freedom to contract/trade for goods and services. It has
nothing to do with the number of participants (only two or more per
transaction) or the limits of the knowledge or intelligence...only that the
trade is entered into freely and willingly.

However the supply is
clearly limited (based on what the community wants)

That's a form of socialism.

and the price should be
left to market dynamics IMHO.

That's a "market" system, but not necessarily a "free market".

Personally I would suggest to anyone living in MA that they move if flying
is an important part of their life.

I would suggest moving from MA in ANY case. :~)


Mike
MU-2

Tom

"Tom S." wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
...
I agree that it not a completly free market. To be completely free
there
need to be an infinate number of buyers and sellers.

That is NOT what defines a "Free Market". A free market is defined as the
parties have full freedom to contract/trade for goods and services. It has
nothing to do with the number of participants (only two or more per
transaction) or the limits of the knowledge or intelligence...only that
the
trade is entered into freely and willingly.


Yes, that is one of the characteristics of a perfect free market. There
needs to be enough buyers and sellers so that no one individual buyer of
seller can influance the market.


However the supply is
clearly limited (based on what the community wants)

That's a form of socialism.


Actually it is democracy..


and the price should be
left to market dynamics IMHO.

That's a "market" system, but not necessarily a "free market".


True

Personally I would suggest to anyone living in MA that they move if
flying
is an important part of their life.

I would suggest moving from MA in ANY case. :~)


The striped bass fishing can be pretty good.



Mike
MU-2

Tom


Mike
MU-2

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
...

"Tom S." wrote in message
...

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
...
I agree that it not a completly free market. To be completely free
there
need to be an infinate number of buyers and sellers.

That is NOT what defines a "Free Market". A free market is defined as
the
parties have full freedom to contract/trade for goods and services. It
has
nothing to do with the number of participants (only two or more per
transaction) or the limits of the knowledge or intelligence...only that
the
trade is entered into freely and willingly.


Yes, that is one of the characteristics of a perfect free market. There
needs to be enough buyers and sellers so that no one individual buyer of
seller can influance the market.

Nope (again). First, it doesn't matter if there's a million buyers or none.
Second, it doesn't matter how many SELLERS there are. If there's NO buyers,
it's the market saying "Your price/product sucks", and if there's one seller
(other than for a patented item) there can be noe barrier to entry for
competitors.

I don't know where these notions of a "free market" come from, but I suspect
it's the public schools/academia.



However the supply is
clearly limited (based on what the community wants)

That's a form of socialism.


Actually it is democracy.

And a democracy (which we're not) can very well be socialistic.



and the price should be
left to market dynamics IMHO.

That's a "market" system, but not necessarily a "free market".


True

Personally I would suggest to anyone living in MA that they move if
flying
is an important part of their life.

I would suggest moving from MA in ANY case. :~)


The striped bass fishing can be pretty good.

No monopoly there.

Mike
MU-2