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FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 20th 12, 03:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 47
Default FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition

The U.S. is moving towards recognizing the Club Class in 2013. A poll has been created to validate interest in establishing FAI (IGC) rules / tasking philosophy in this new class. If approved the U.S. Club Class would be the ONLY U.S. racing class under FAI (IGC) racing rules.

Please sign the petition IF YOU are interested in supporting or flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules / tasking philosophy.

In the optional personal comment section please enter (if applicable):
1. Your position on the US seeding list.
2. If you have access to or own a Club Class glider, what type.
3. If you are familiar with IGC rules and prefer those rules over US rules..
4. If you would financially or otherwise support development of the US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules.
5. If you don't currently fly US contests but would start flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules.
6. If you currently fly US contests (Standard, Open, 15m, 18m or Sports) and are interested in flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules.
7. Any other comments welcome!

Link to petition: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/262/8...out-exception/

Sean Franke
US Club Class Team Member
Ads
  #2  
Old November 20th 12, 04:22 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dave Nadler
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Posts: 1,308
Default FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:42:32 AM UTC-5, wrote:
The U.S. is moving towards recognizing the Club Class in 2013.


Can I fly my whale ? Its not on the IGC handicap list ;-(
  #3  
Old November 20th 12, 07:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Sean F (F2)
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Posts: 573
Default FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition

For those of you who may wish to remain anonymous but still wish to sign this petition, you basically have 2 options.

1) you can choose to show your name, city and state is all that is displayed (your address and other info remains private and is only used to validate the signature by the petition target (SSA Rules Committee) if needed.

2) you can check a box to remain anonymous. Your City, State appears but your name does not. The name will be visible to the petition targets if the petition signatures are requested for validation.

The petition targets (US RC) may try and disqualify some of our signatures based on little or no contest experience, little or no SSA contest participation, glider currently owned, etc. Perhaps a statement on your enthusiasm for a true racing class vs. SSA rules (all existing US classes). Please consider adding some basic information on your background, contest history and the glider you own, fly etc so that we can show the US RC that YOU ARE worth considering.

Here is some additional petition signature information that you may find useful:

LINK TO FAQ - http://www.thepetitionsite.com/petitionfaqs.html

Who will see my signature information?

There are several ways your signature information may be shared:

Public Petition Signature pages. Certain fields will be displayed on the publicly displayed signature page for all to see. Your email address, street address and telephone number are never displayed on this page. You are always given the option to check a box to hide your name, and replace it with the word "anonymous." You are also required to preview your signature before you submit it, to prevent mistakes.

Petition Author / Target. At the close of the petition, we provide all of the signature information to the petition author with the exception of your email address, street address and telephone number. These fields of information will only be shared with the petition author and target on a case by case basis to verify the validity of your signature.

Your Privacy is Important: PetitionSite.com and Care2.com believe in protecting personal privacy on line. To this end, we are a member of the independent watchdog group, Truste.org. Please see our full privacy statement on Care2.com.

Sincerely,

Sean Fidler
F2
Lak17a
7T
ASG-29

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:42:32 AM UTC-5, wrote:
The U.S. is moving towards recognizing the Club Class in 2013. A poll has been created to validate interest in establishing FAI (IGC) rules / tasking philosophy in this new class. If approved the U.S. Club Class would be the ONLY U.S. racing class under FAI (IGC) racing rules.



Please sign the petition IF YOU are interested in supporting or flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules / tasking philosophy.



In the optional personal comment section please enter (if applicable):

1. Your position on the US seeding list.

2. If you have access to or own a Club Class glider, what type.

3. If you are familiar with IGC rules and prefer those rules over US rules.

4. If you would financially or otherwise support development of the US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules.

5. If you don't currently fly US contests but would start flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules.

6. If you currently fly US contests (Standard, Open, 15m, 18m or Sports) and are interested in flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules.

7. Any other comments welcome!



Link to petition: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/262/8...out-exception/



Sean Franke

US Club Class Team Member

  #4  
Old November 20th 12, 08:42 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Evan Ludeman[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 485
Default FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:42:32 AM UTC-5, wrote:
The U.S. is moving towards recognizing the Club Class in 2013. A poll has been created to validate interest in establishing FAI (IGC) rules / tasking philosophy in this new class. If approved the U.S. Club Class would be the ONLY U.S. racing class under FAI (IGC) racing rules.



Please sign the petition IF YOU are interested in supporting or flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules / tasking philosophy.



In the optional personal comment section please enter (if applicable):

1. Your position on the US seeding list.

2. If you have access to or own a Club Class glider, what type.

3. If you are familiar with IGC rules and prefer those rules over US rules.

4. If you would financially or otherwise support development of the US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules.

5. If you don't currently fly US contests but would start flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules.

6. If you currently fly US contests (Standard, Open, 15m, 18m or Sports) and are interested in flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules.

7. Any other comments welcome!



Link to petition: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/262/8...out-exception/



Sean Franke

US Club Class Team Member


Did it ever occur to you guys to ask for an RC waiver to do what you want at a super regional level?

-Evan Ludeman / T8
  #5  
Old November 20th 12, 10:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
John Cochrane[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 314
Default FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition



Did it ever occur to you guys to ask for an RC waiver to do what you want at a super regional level?

-Evan Ludeman / T8


It occurred to the RC to suggest that option to them.

Here's how we introduce new classes and rules changes: Try it by
waiver at regionals. See if its popular with pilots, and work out the
many (in this case) operational details. If successful, they become a
regular part of regionals rules. If successful, they move to
nationals.

Here's what we tend not to do: Sign petitions to get the SSA board to
overturn the RC, announce in February that a contest in May will have
a quite different list of acceptable gliders, meaning that many pilots
planning to attend will be sent home, fly under rules that almost none
of the participating pilots have read or flown under, requiring the
writing of complex local procedures, no available CDs with any
experience in said rules, new scoring program to be mastered, new
weighing and handicap procedures to be mastered, everything in metric
units, procedures for mixing this contest with another one to be
worked out, etc. etc. etc.

A few super-regionals by waiver would be an excellent way to try this
concept, gauge how popular it really is, and begin to develop the
experience with a totally different way of doing things that this
proposal requires.

John Cochrane
  #6  
Old November 20th 12, 10:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 418
Default FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 12:06:42 PM UTC-6, Sean F (F2) wrote:
For those of you who may wish to remain anonymous but still wish to sign this petition, you basically have 2 options.



1) you can choose to show your name, city and state is all that is displayed (your address and other info remains private and is only used to validate the signature by the petition target (SSA Rules Committee) if needed.



2) you can check a box to remain anonymous. Your City, State appears but your name does not. The name will be visible to the petition targets if the petition signatures are requested for validation.



The petition targets (US RC) may try and disqualify some of our signatures based on little or no contest experience, little or no SSA contest participation, glider currently owned, etc. Perhaps a statement on your enthusiasm for a true racing class vs. SSA rules (all existing US classes). Please consider adding some basic information on your background, contest history and the glider you own, fly etc so that we can show the US RC that YOU ARE worth considering.



Here is some additional petition signature information that you may find useful:



LINK TO FAQ - http://www.thepetitionsite.com/petitionfaqs.html



Who will see my signature information?



There are several ways your signature information may be shared:



Public Petition Signature pages. Certain fields will be displayed on the publicly displayed signature page for all to see. Your email address, street address and telephone number are never displayed on this page. You are always given the option to check a box to hide your name, and replace it with the word "anonymous." You are also required to preview your signature before you submit it, to prevent mistakes.



Petition Author / Target. At the close of the petition, we provide all of the signature information to the petition author with the exception of your email address, street address and telephone number. These fields of information will only be shared with the petition author and target on a case by case basis to verify the validity of your signature.



Your Privacy is Important: PetitionSite.com and Care2.com believe in protecting personal privacy on line. To this end, we are a member of the independent watchdog group, Truste.org. Please see our full privacy statement on Care2.com.



Sincerely,



Sean Fidler

F2

Lak17a

7T

ASG-29



On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 9:42:32 AM UTC-5, wrote:

The U.S. is moving towards recognizing the Club Class in 2013. A poll has been created to validate interest in establishing FAI (IGC) rules / tasking philosophy in this new class. If approved the U.S. Club Class would be the ONLY U.S. racing class under FAI (IGC) racing rules.








Please sign the petition IF YOU are interested in supporting or flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules / tasking philosophy.








In the optional personal comment section please enter (if applicable):




1. Your position on the US seeding list.




2. If you have access to or own a Club Class glider, what type.




3. If you are familiar with IGC rules and prefer those rules over US rules.




4. If you would financially or otherwise support development of the US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules.




5. If you don't currently fly US contests but would start flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules.




6. If you currently fly US contests (Standard, Open, 15m, 18m or Sports) and are interested in flying US Club Class under FAI (IGC) rules.




7. Any other comments welcome!








Link to petition: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/262/8...out-exception/








Sean Franke




US Club Class Team Member


What's up Sean, another day, another petition?
I thought you were busy working out the details for a Grand Prix event, you know rules and such and of course the hold-harmless releases for the organizer. Good luck with all these initiatives.
  #7  
Old November 20th 12, 11:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Sean F (F2)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 573
Default FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition

Ha ha. The goal with the petition is simply to see determine how many US club pilots desire more of a FAI tasking philosophy than is currently part of the US Club Class guidelines. There are some big concerns about including the very low performance gliders in with the US Club class (233, 135, etc). Partly because the new US Club class will be the US Team qualification path for the Club Class World Championship. Partly because a segment of pilots would like to see the US make at least one effort to keep the US Club Class as close to the world standard as possible.

My hope is the petition justifies further consideration of slight changes or clarifications to the tasking guidelines for our US Club Class. I also agree that it is important to retain many of the safety and attendance minded elements of US Soarings rules. Overall the SSA and the RC are doing an excellent job on all fronts protecting attendance and working to grow the sport within the USA. In some ways the US is leading in terms of rules philosophy.

I have grown to appreciate the basic principles of the US rules vs. FAI in certain ways. I get it. That said I think there is room to define US Club Class tasking which would go along way towards improving the racing quality of the new US Club Class while maintaining US safety principles.

So, in other words, petition is intended measure the level of enthusiasm within the potential US Club Class pilot (club glider owner) "population" AND perhaps encourage the RC to considering some slight changes (perhaps just clarifications) to the current US Club Class tasking guidelines.

The petition is NOT intended to be a protest or complaint. It is a litmus test really. If only a few sign it, then its meaningless. If many sign it, you guys can use it to judge the importance of that information and what to do with it.

I hope it all works out and newly excited pilots remain this energized! This new US Club Class has tremendous potential.

Sincerely,

Sean

P.S. - I plan to do a small, informal GP even in Ionia next summer. I am not going to do any remote support of a GP event in a western local. Probably going to be around 10 gliders over 3-5 days in July. It will be SSA wavered and sanctioned if I do it. More later.
  #8  
Old November 21st 12, 03:50 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition

If a better showing at world gliding comps is the reason for the lobbying for a change of the US sport/club class rules, one has to wonder why those leading the charge have not addressed the matter of team selection rules.

One rule prohibits pilots like Doug Jacobs and John Cochrane, to name just two, who, having flown in a FAI WGC, are barred from representing the US.

The latest dumbing down of the US Club team rules is the restriction in gliders that can be flown. Is there any doubt that DJ, this year's Sport class winner, would be our best choice? He is ineligible both because he's flown (and won) a WGC and his ship is a percent or two out of the handicap range (read: he has to fly that much faster to win).

The Sports class handicap system the US uses selects the best pilot regardless of all the whining from the crowd that would like to see the winner selected from a vastly reduced field ala the mercifully euthanized PW-5 fiasco..

As to the petition being brandished about, my reaction is to request all who appreciate the excellent rule making process the US competition soaring community enjoys contact their regional directors and ask them to give it all the consideration it deserves; i.e, send it to the circular file.

Karl Striedieck



  #9  
Old November 21st 12, 05:07 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike C
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 247
Default FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition

I see no reason why a former FAI team member can not fly and represent the USA in the Worlds, if he or she qualifies in a Club Class Nationals. I do see the reason why handicapping should be kept tight and within comparable limits set by the IGC.

Mike


On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 7:50:56 PM UTC-7, wrote:
If a better showing at world gliding comps is the reason for the lobbying for a change of the US sport/club class rules, one has to wonder why those leading the charge have not addressed the matter of team selection rules.



One rule prohibits pilots like Doug Jacobs and John Cochrane, to name just two, who, having flown in a FAI WGC, are barred from representing the US.



The latest dumbing down of the US Club team rules is the restriction in gliders that can be flown. Is there any doubt that DJ, this year's Sport class winner, would be our best choice? He is ineligible both because he's flown (and won) a WGC and his ship is a percent or two out of the handicap range (read: he has to fly that much faster to win).



The Sports class handicap system the US uses selects the best pilot regardless of all the whining from the crowd that would like to see the winner selected from a vastly reduced field ala the mercifully euthanized PW-5 fiasco.



As to the petition being brandished about, my reaction is to request all who appreciate the excellent rule making process the US competition soaring community enjoys contact their regional directors and ask them to give it all the consideration it deserves; i.e, send it to the circular file.



Karl Striedieck


  #10  
Old November 21st 12, 05:33 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 33
Default FAI (IGC) rules for US Club Class Nationals - Petition

USA Club Class WGC pilots are no longer restricted. Anyone can qualify, even former world champs. This was announced about two years ago.

Rick Walters
USTC

On Tuesday, November 20, 2012 6:50:56 PM UTC-8, wrote:
If a better showing at world gliding comps is the reason for the lobbying for a change of the US sport/club class rules, one has to wonder why those leading the charge have not addressed the matter of team selection rules.



One rule prohibits pilots like Doug Jacobs and John Cochrane, to name just two, who, having flown in a FAI WGC, are barred from representing the US.



The latest dumbing down of the US Club team rules is the restriction in gliders that can be flown. Is there any doubt that DJ, this year's Sport class winner, would be our best choice? He is ineligible both because he's flown (and won) a WGC and his ship is a percent or two out of the handicap range (read: he has to fly that much faster to win).



The Sports class handicap system the US uses selects the best pilot regardless of all the whining from the crowd that would like to see the winner selected from a vastly reduced field ala the mercifully euthanized PW-5 fiasco.



As to the petition being brandished about, my reaction is to request all who appreciate the excellent rule making process the US competition soaring community enjoys contact their regional directors and ask them to give it all the consideration it deserves; i.e, send it to the circular file.



Karl Striedieck


 




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