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On 25 Aug 2004 14:14:17 -0500, oD (Bob
Kaplow) wrote: From: EISNER::KAPLOW_R "Bob Kaplow" 25-AUG-2004 11:26:50.98 To: CC: ,KAPLOW_R Subj: October cartoon As a model rocketeer with 40 years of experience in the hobby, I strongly object to the cartoon I just saw on page 77 of your October issue of Kitplanes. To infer that model rocketeers would endanger pilots or aircraft is absurd. Just as your hobby has grown over the past 4 decades, so has mine. When we fly our large models that are capable of reaching altitudes of 5000' and more, we notify the FAA of our operations and have the local FSS issue a NOTAM. We fill out the same form used for an airshow. We always check for aircraft in the flight area before launching ANY rocket. We are VERY safety conscious in our operations, and have a safety record unmatched by any sport or hobby. Pilots are SUPPOSED to check the NOTAMs for their area before taking off. Of course, we all know that they don't always do so. That's why we always look for aircraft in the area before we fly. But we've encountered problems where our NOTAMs actually attract aircraft. Someone comes flying around our launch, and hangs around in our airspace, hoping to see something "cool". Of course we then have to sit there and wait for the intruder to leave before we can fly. Frankly we've grown tired of our hobby being under attack by everyone from the BATFE to SBC and now to Kitplanes. It is totally unjustified. Where do you think the people who will build and fly the first manned Mars mission will come from? They won't be Nintendo pilots, that's for sure. [Hint: what was Bert Rutan doing when he was a kid? Building and flying model airplanes!] You can learn more about our hobby, our safety rules, and our organization by visiting our web site at www.nar.org Bob Kaplow Northern Illinois Rocketry Association - Range Safety Officer National Association of Rocketry - lifetime member #18L cc: Mark Bundick NAR president cc: rec.models.rockets Sounds like you are definately a responsible rocket flyer Bob, but not all rocket enthusiasts are. A couple of months ago I was flying out of KLEB in Lebanon NH. I was just logging landings to remain current so I could rent from the FBO, so I was staying in the pattern. The active runway was 18, which for Lebanon, means a right hand pattern. This takes you over a tiny settlement south of the field comprising about five or six houses, then brings you over the commercial strip bordering the Connecticut River, then over a part of West Lebanon during base and final. I was into my fourth circuit, and it was around 8:45 on a quiet Saturday morning. I had just reported in to the tower midfield right downwind for 18. The tower came back aknowledging my position, clearing me for landing and then asking me if I could extend my next leg. I told the tower I could do so, then asked if noise was a problem. The tower responded that it appeared to be. So I repeated that I had no problem extending my subsequent patterns for noise abatement. Then the tower came back saying that it wasn't really noise abatement, that someone had called in saying that they were about to fire off a rocket and wanted to notify the airport. They did not say where they were calling from, but they could apparently see my airplane in the pattern and obviously thought that firing the rocket while I was in the air might make for a close call, or at least startle me. I looked carefully at the ground under my pattern the next several circuits, but could not see any activity under me. I figured that the caller must have been calling from the houses to the south of the airport as no other area was remote enough to allow the firing of a rocket, but who knows. In the event, I did not see a smoke trail and do not know if the guy shot the thing off or not. But the mere fact that he was prepared to fire it off within the pattern of an active airport was a bit disconcerting. I guess you could say: at least he called. That's true, but he should not have even been considering firing it in such close proximaty to the airport. Corky Scott |
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(Bob Kaplow)
Date: 8/25/2004 2:14 PM Central Daylight Time Message-id: From: EISNER::KAPLOW_R "Bob Kaplow" 25-AUG-2004 11:26:50.98 To: CC: ,KAPLOW_R Subj: October cartoon As a model rocketeer with 40 years of experience in the hobby, I strongly object to the cartoon I just saw on page 77 of your October issue of Kitplanes. To infer that model rocketeers would endanger pilots or aircraft is absurd. Imply, not infer. I do see your point, but I don't think it was intended as a slam on rockets. I wonder if there has ever been a collision between an aircraft and a model rocket. Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired |
#4
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In article , Corky Scott writes:
I guess you could say: at least he called. That's true, but he should not have even been considering firing it in such close proximaty to the airport. The regs are quite clear on where we can and can not fly. For the traditional model rocket under 1 pound, we are totally exempt from FAA regulation. Still we must fly in a manner that does not endanger aircraft. For what is now known as a "large model rocket" (between 1 and 3.3#) we need to NOTIFY the local airport manager of our activity. That may be what you encountered. Beyond 3.3# we fill out the same waiver form as used for an airshow, 45 days in advance, etc. etc. and the FAA has the final say as to whether our request is granted or not. We've actually flown off assorted airports, both general aviation and military. The first time I was involved in running one of these launches we were just under 20 miles outside of ORD, one of the busiest hunks of airspace in the country. They let us fly up to but not into the TCA, and actually rerouted traffic into 9 right around us. Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" To reply, remove the TRABoD! Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html |
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Bob Kaplow wrote:
From: EISNER::KAPLOW_R "Bob Kaplow" 25-AUG-2004 11:26:50.98 To: CC: ,KAPLOW_R Subj: October cartoon All this because of a CARTOON. Someone needs to get a grip on reality. If all model rocketeers are this paranoid, I really am starting now to worry about them being a hazard to aviation and problem close friends and relatives! Matt |
#6
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In article , (B2431) writes:
I wonder if there has ever been a collision between an aircraft and a model rocket. Never. One of our members was a Navy captain and had access to a DOD study. Using Mach 5 sounding rockets and radar slaved launchers, they fired a battery of rounds at target drones. They initially thought they'd be successful about 1 in 10. Afterwards they revised that to less than 1 in 1000000. And that's with radar and many Mach 5 rockets. We have neither, and we don't try. Now we've got the BATFE on our case. We've sued them for illegally changing regulations, and won. They still are trying to ban our motors. THe propellant is almost the same as the shuttle SRBs. You couldn't make it explode if you tried. Sure you could use a model rocket, or for that matter a Ryder truck or 767 or USPS package to deliver a dangerous payload to some random location. But it's not the BATFEs job to regulate delivery devices. If they have their way it may impact general aviation as well. The same type of rocket motor is used to deploy the parachutes used for spin recovery etc. Then there are the air bags in cars... Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L TRA # "Impeach the TRA BoD" To reply, remove the TRABoD! Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/LeadingEdge/Phantom4000.pdf www.encompasserve.org/~kaplow_r/ www.nira-rocketry.org www.nar.org Save Model Rocketry from the HSA! http://www.space-rockets.com/congress.html |
#7
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All that over a cartoon? Taking things a bit too serious aren't you?
On 25 Aug 2004 14:14:17 -0500, oD (Bob Kaplow) wrote: From: EISNER::KAPLOW_R "Bob Kaplow" 25-AUG-2004 11:26:50.98 To: CC: ,KAPLOW_R Subj: October cartoon As a model rocketeer with 40 years of experience in the hobby, I strongly object to the cartoon I just saw on page 77 of your October issue of Kitplanes. To infer that model rocketeers would endanger pilots or aircraft is absurd. Just as your hobby has grown over the past 4 decades, so has mine. When we fly our large models that are capable of reaching altitudes of 5000' and more, we notify the FAA of our operations and have the local FSS issue a NOTAM. We fill out the same form used for an airshow. We always check for aircraft in the flight area before launching ANY rocket. We are VERY safety conscious in our operations, and have a safety record unmatched by any sport or hobby. Pilots are SUPPOSED to check the NOTAMs for their area before taking off. Of course, we all know that they don't always do so. That's why we always look for aircraft in the area before we fly. But we've encountered problems where our NOTAMs actually attract aircraft. Someone comes flying around our launch, and hangs around in our airspace, hoping to see something "cool". Of course we then have to sit there and wait for the intruder to leave before we can fly. Frankly we've grown tired of our hobby being under attack by everyone from the BATFE to SBC and now to Kitplanes. It is totally unjustified. Where do you think the people who will build and fly the first manned Mars mission will come from? They won't be Nintendo pilots, that's for sure. [Hint: what was Bert Rutan doing when he was a kid? Building and flying model airplanes!] You can learn more about our hobby, our safety rules, and our organization by visiting our web site at www.nar.org Bob Kaplow Northern Illinois Rocketry Association - Range Safety Officer National Association of Rocketry - lifetime member #18L cc: Mark Bundick NAR president cc: rec.models.rockets |
#8
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On 25 Aug 2004 16:45:33 -0500, oD (Bob
Kaplow) wrote: In article , (B2431) writes: I wonder if there has ever been a collision between an aircraft and a model rocket. Never. One of our members was a Navy captain and had access to a DOD study. Using Mach 5 sounding rockets and radar slaved launchers, they fired a battery of rounds at target drones. They initially thought they'd be successful about 1 in 10. Afterwards they revised that to less than 1 in 1000000. And that's with radar and many Mach 5 rockets. We have neither, and we don't try. Sounds like the big sky theory... There are 10s of thousands of cubic miles of atmosphere, but planes still collide (and they certainly aren't trying either). I would be willing to bet that somewhere, a model rocket has hit a GA plane. However, the risk is really minimal. Even if one hits a plane, it is probably no worse than hitting a small bird. Out of curiousity, how fast are the model rockets moving? -Nathan |
#9
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"Nathan Young" wrote in message ... All that over a cartoon? Taking things a bit too serious aren't you? Unfortunately for the model rocket industry things have come to that. It has become extremely difficult to even ship model rocket engines because of security paranoia. Many stores have quit carrying them entirely. Model rocketeers probably don't find cartoons like this any more funny than you would find a New Yorker cartoon of a 'stealth' Velocity bombing a city to be funny. |
#10
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All that over a cartoon? Taking things a bit too serious aren't you?
Well, yeah, it's just a cartoon, but... How serious would folks on r.a.h. take it, if a cartoon was run somewhere showing some terrorists using a homebuilt aircraft for some illicit purpose? We'd all be "safest", at home and locked indoors by the police. There are enough threats to our freedom from within, thanks to needless paranoia and ensuing government overregulation, without having to stir up even more unnecessary fears. I for one like living in a country where folks are still free to do things (responsibly) that other people might consider "risky". Things like flying homebuilt aircraft, and flying model rockets. Unfortunately, there are people - within our borders - more than willing to take away a little freedom here, a little liberty there, all so the trembling ninnies can have a little more "safety". I feel more threatened by them, than by any terrorist. Pretty soon, there won't be any more freedom and liberty left to take away. But we'll all be "safe". p.s. try and attend an organized launch in your area some weekend - they're about the most intelligent, amiable and fun-loving folks you'll ever meet, and I guarantee you'll have a blast. |
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