"Photo of Kerry with Fonda enrages Vietnam veterans"

Proof? Well, he got some free dental work done if you call that proof.
However, did he pass his drug screening test so that he could continue
his life long goal of an aviation career? No, it seems he was
grounded. No use taking a test that will show drug use when you can
use connections to get out of the service.

The problem is Bush* looks like the faux warrior when placed side by
side with Kerry. Karl Rove needs to dish out more lies. Speaking of
more lies:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/ne...ense-kerry.htm



Chad Irby wrote in message . com...
In article ,
(miso) wrote:

Get over it people. Kerry was there, he fought, he was wounded. No
amount of dissing the man will make the other guy's AWOL story go
away.

Nope - it's the actual *proof* that's been shown that made that one go
away.

"miso" wrote in message
om...

Proof? Well, he got some free dental work done if you call that proof.

How would an ANG member get such care without being in a duty status?

However, did he pass his drug screening test so that he could continue
his life long goal of an aviation career? No,

Sorry, but you are a year or two too early--drug screening had not
commenced, and according to the pilots who were flying at the time and have
weighed in on the subject (including Ed, IIRC) it was done randomly when it
was initiated a couple of years later. Kind of easy to condemn him when you
create your own little fantasy world to do so in which things like drug
testing that was not yet underway and NG personnel just dropping by the base
clinic whenever they felt like it to receive free health care are included
in the evaluation criteria, huh?

it seems he was
grounded. No use taking a test that will show drug use when you can
use connections to get out of the service.

What kind of "connections" were required that made him pile up those duty
days during that last few months so he *could* leave, and were they any
different from those used by the other pilots who were also getting out
courtesy of the glut of pilot qualified individuals with heaps more
experience then leaving active duty and looking for a Guard slot?


The problem is Bush* looks like the faux warrior when placed side by
side with Kerry.

Would that be the same Kerry who also left active duty early, and then went
on to serve as a reserve officer for a few years (while playing that whole
"Winter Soldier" gig, no less)? With no evidence supporting his satisfactory
completion of any reserve obligations during that period? How many other
early-release-from-AC officers do you know of who managed *that* little
feat?

Brooks

snip

Kevin Brooks wrote:

"miso" wrote in message
om...

Proof? Well, he got some free dental work done if you call that proof.

How would an ANG member get such care without being in a duty status?

However, did he pass his drug screening test so that he could continue
his life long goal of an aviation career? No,

Sorry, but you are a year or two too early--drug screening had not
commenced, and according to the pilots who were flying at the time and have
weighed in on the subject (including Ed, IIRC) it was done randomly when it
was initiated a couple of years later. Kind of easy to condemn him when you
create your own little fantasy world to do so in which things like drug
testing that was not yet underway and NG personnel just dropping by the base
clinic whenever they felt like it to receive free health care are included
in the evaluation criteria, huh?

it seems he was
grounded. No use taking a test that will show drug use when you can
use connections to get out of the service.

What kind of "connections" were required that made him pile up those duty
days during that last few months so he *could* leave, and were they any
different from those used by the other pilots who were also getting out
courtesy of the glut of pilot qualified individuals with heaps more
experience then leaving active duty and looking for a Guard slot?


The problem is Bush* looks like the faux warrior when placed side by
side with Kerry.

Would that be the same Kerry who also left active duty early, and then went
on to serve as a reserve officer for a few years (while playing that whole
"Winter Soldier" gig, no less)? With no evidence supporting his satisfactory
completion of any reserve obligations during that period? How many other
early-release-from-AC officers do you know of who managed *that* little
feat?

Brooks

snip

Me.

Bob McKellar

"Bob McKellar" wrote in message
...


Kevin Brooks wrote:

"miso" wrote in message
om...

Proof? Well, he got some free dental work done if you call that proof.

How would an ANG member get such care without being in a duty status?

However, did he pass his drug screening test so that he could continue
his life long goal of an aviation career? No,

Sorry, but you are a year or two too early--drug screening had not
commenced, and according to the pilots who were flying at the time and
have
weighed in on the subject (including Ed, IIRC) it was done randomly when
it
was initiated a couple of years later. Kind of easy to condemn him when
you
create your own little fantasy world to do so in which things like drug
testing that was not yet underway and NG personnel just dropping by the
base
clinic whenever they felt like it to receive free health care are
included
in the evaluation criteria, huh?

it seems he was
grounded. No use taking a test that will show drug use when you can
use connections to get out of the service.

What kind of "connections" were required that made him pile up those
duty
days during that last few months so he *could* leave, and were they any
different from those used by the other pilots who were also getting out
courtesy of the glut of pilot qualified individuals with heaps more
experience then leaving active duty and looking for a Guard slot?


The problem is Bush* looks like the faux warrior when placed side by
side with Kerry.

Would that be the same Kerry who also left active duty early, and then
went
on to serve as a reserve officer for a few years (while playing that
whole
"Winter Soldier" gig, no less)? With no evidence supporting his
satisfactory
completion of any reserve obligations during that period? How many other
early-release-from-AC officers do you know of who managed *that* little
feat?

Brooks

snip

Me.

No reserve duty obligation whatsoever, even after you were released from
active duty before your initial duty obligation was completed?

Brooks


Bob McKellar

Kevin Brooks wrote:

"Bob McKellar" wrote in message
...


Kevin Brooks wrote:

"miso" wrote in message
om...

Proof? Well, he got some free dental work done if you call that proof.

How would an ANG member get such care without being in a duty status?

However, did he pass his drug screening test so that he could continue
his life long goal of an aviation career? No,

Sorry, but you are a year or two too early--drug screening had not
commenced, and according to the pilots who were flying at the time and
have
weighed in on the subject (including Ed, IIRC) it was done randomly when
it
was initiated a couple of years later. Kind of easy to condemn him when
you
create your own little fantasy world to do so in which things like drug
testing that was not yet underway and NG personnel just dropping by the
base
clinic whenever they felt like it to receive free health care are
included
in the evaluation criteria, huh?

it seems he was
grounded. No use taking a test that will show drug use when you can
use connections to get out of the service.

What kind of "connections" were required that made him pile up those
duty
days during that last few months so he *could* leave, and were they any
different from those used by the other pilots who were also getting out
courtesy of the glut of pilot qualified individuals with heaps more
experience then leaving active duty and looking for a Guard slot?


The problem is Bush* looks like the faux warrior when placed side by
side with Kerry.

Would that be the same Kerry who also left active duty early, and then
went
on to serve as a reserve officer for a few years (while playing that
whole
"Winter Soldier" gig, no less)? With no evidence supporting his
satisfactory
completion of any reserve obligations during that period? How many other
early-release-from-AC officers do you know of who managed *that* little
feat?

Brooks

snip

Me.

No reserve duty obligation whatsoever, even after you were released from
active duty before your initial duty obligation was completed?

Brooks


Bob McKellar


I got out early in 1971, having been commissioned in November 1968, giving me
just over 2 years active commissioned service.

I went to my new home and tried to forget about the Navy. I got one letter from
some Navy somebody or other telling me to go to drills, but I ignored it. The
only other communication I received was my promotion to LT., which gave me quite
a laugh at the time.

Several years later, when my circumstances were very different and I decided to
start drilling, I had been dropped from the reserve rolls, but it only took a
bit of paperwork to get me back in.

BTW, I had no "political pull" whatsoever.

Bob McKellar, reserve slacker, never shot at ( or even aimed at, AFAIK )

"Kevin Brooks" wrote in message
...

"Bob McKellar" wrote in message
...


Would that be the same Kerry who also left active duty early, and then
went
on to serve as a reserve officer for a few years (while playing that
whole
"Winter Soldier" gig, no less)? With no evidence supporting his
satisfactory
completion of any reserve obligations during that period? How many
other
early-release-from-AC officers do you know of who managed *that*
little
feat?

Brooks

snip

Me.

No reserve duty obligation whatsoever, even after you were released from
active duty before your initial duty obligation was completed?

Two years of active reserve is required for each year early out, but lots of
people never showed up for their obligations. I know another guy who never
shwed up and he got his honorable discharge in the mail. Standing nuclear
artillery in Europe left him afraid go back.

"Bob McKellar" wrote in message
...


Kevin Brooks wrote:

"Bob McKellar" wrote in message
...


Kevin Brooks wrote:

"miso" wrote in message
om...

Proof? Well, he got some free dental work done if you call that
proof.

How would an ANG member get such care without being in a duty
status?

However, did he pass his drug screening test so that he could
continue
his life long goal of an aviation career? No,

Sorry, but you are a year or two too early--drug screening had not
commenced, and according to the pilots who were flying at the time
and
have
weighed in on the subject (including Ed, IIRC) it was done randomly
when
it
was initiated a couple of years later. Kind of easy to condemn him
when
you
create your own little fantasy world to do so in which things like
drug
testing that was not yet underway and NG personnel just dropping by
the
base
clinic whenever they felt like it to receive free health care are
included
in the evaluation criteria, huh?

it seems he was
grounded. No use taking a test that will show drug use when you
can
use connections to get out of the service.

What kind of "connections" were required that made him pile up those
duty
days during that last few months so he *could* leave, and were they
any
different from those used by the other pilots who were also getting
out
courtesy of the glut of pilot qualified individuals with heaps more
experience then leaving active duty and looking for a Guard slot?


The problem is Bush* looks like the faux warrior when placed side
by
side with Kerry.

Would that be the same Kerry who also left active duty early, and
then
went
on to serve as a reserve officer for a few years (while playing that
whole
"Winter Soldier" gig, no less)? With no evidence supporting his
satisfactory
completion of any reserve obligations during that period? How many
other
early-release-from-AC officers do you know of who managed *that*
little
feat?

Brooks

snip

Me.

No reserve duty obligation whatsoever, even after you were released from
active duty before your initial duty obligation was completed?

Brooks


Bob McKellar


I got out early in 1971, having been commissioned in November 1968, giving
me
just over 2 years active commissioned service.

I went to my new home and tried to forget about the Navy. I got one
letter from
some Navy somebody or other telling me to go to drills, but I ignored it.

Well, then one trusts you won't be questioning Bush's record of drill
attendance...

Brooks

snip

George Z. Bush ) wrote:

: "Merlin Dorfman" wrote in message

: I love it! Elect a Jew to reduce Jewish influence.

: If you're going to say things like that at the next sheet meeting, you need to
: remember to call it "Jew influence", because calling it "Jewish influence" will
: make you sound educated, and you wouldn't want to give yourself away, would you!
: (*-*)))

Actually the sheeters would write "jew influence." If you
capitalize Jew, you might be showing some respect to fellow human
beings.

Merlin Dorfman wrote:
George Z. Bush ) wrote:

"Merlin Dorfman" wrote in message

I love it! Elect a Jew to reduce Jewish influence.

If you're going to say things like that at the next sheet meeting, you need
to remember to call it "Jew influence", because calling it "Jewish
influence" will make you sound educated, and you wouldn't want to give
yourself away, would you! (*-*)))

Actually the sheeters would write "jew influence." If you
capitalize Jew, you might be showing some respect to fellow human
beings.

Sheeesh! Gave myself away by capitalizing "Jew". How could I be so careless?
(*-*)))

George Z.

Kevin Brooks wrote:

"Bob McKellar" wrote in message
...


Kevin Brooks wrote:

"Bob McKellar" wrote in message
...


Kevin Brooks wrote:

"miso" wrote in message
om...

Proof? Well, he got some free dental work done if you call that
proof.

How would an ANG member get such care without being in a duty
status?

However, did he pass his drug screening test so that he could
continue
his life long goal of an aviation career? No,

Sorry, but you are a year or two too early--drug screening had not
commenced, and according to the pilots who were flying at the time
and
have
weighed in on the subject (including Ed, IIRC) it was done randomly
when
it
was initiated a couple of years later. Kind of easy to condemn him
when
you
create your own little fantasy world to do so in which things like
drug
testing that was not yet underway and NG personnel just dropping by
the
base
clinic whenever they felt like it to receive free health care are
included
in the evaluation criteria, huh?

it seems he was
grounded. No use taking a test that will show drug use when you
can
use connections to get out of the service.

What kind of "connections" were required that made him pile up those
duty
days during that last few months so he *could* leave, and were they
any
different from those used by the other pilots who were also getting
out
courtesy of the glut of pilot qualified individuals with heaps more
experience then leaving active duty and looking for a Guard slot?


The problem is Bush* looks like the faux warrior when placed side
by
side with Kerry.

Would that be the same Kerry who also left active duty early, and
then
went
on to serve as a reserve officer for a few years (while playing that
whole
"Winter Soldier" gig, no less)? With no evidence supporting his
satisfactory
completion of any reserve obligations during that period? How many
other
early-release-from-AC officers do you know of who managed *that*
little
feat?

Brooks

snip

Me.

No reserve duty obligation whatsoever, even after you were released from
active duty before your initial duty obligation was completed?

Brooks


Bob McKellar


I got out early in 1971, having been commissioned in November 1968, giving
me
just over 2 years active commissioned service.

I went to my new home and tried to forget about the Navy. I got one
letter from
some Navy somebody or other telling me to go to drills, but I ignored it.

Well, then one trusts you won't be questioning Bush's record of drill
attendance...

Brooks

snip

I have consistently NOT criticized GWB with the inflated "AWOL, deserter"
rhetoric thrown around here and in the general press. My views on this a

1. He was primarily motivated by the draft, and would not have joined
otherwise.
2. His entry and choice of unit was influenced and enabled by family
connections.
3. He performed well during flight training and his early inactive duty.
4. After a while, he lost interest in flying and had other things he wanted to
do.
5. He slacked off on drilling, but eventually made up the missed drills.
6. By that time, nobody in the Guard really cared what he did.

With the exception of #4 above, NONE of those things are particularly unusual,
and NONE would have drawn significant comment AT THE TIME. We of the class of
'68 all had to deal with the "draft problem" one way or another, and many people
did far worse.

In the general population, and even around RAM, people seem to have very little
appreciation of what that time was like. It was not 1917, it was not 1944, and
it was not 1991. It was closer to 1952, but 1968 stands on its own.

Now, of course, in an election year, everyone establishes their conclusion, then
works backward seeking evidence to support it. This is a multipartisan
activity.

Depending on various biases:

1. GWB was a deserter
2. Al Gore was a tourist
3. Bob Kerrey was a war criminal
4. John Kerry was a phony and a slacker
5. GHWB was a coward
6. Bill Clinton was a traitor and criminal draft dodger
7. Max Cleland injured himself on his way to a beer party with his friends. (
I did not make this one up, Ann Coulter did. )

Many of you, admit it now, probably lean toward agreeing with a subset of the
above, depending on your own prejudices.

It's too bad they don't issue medals for hypocrisy, we'd all look like Audie
Murphy.

Bob McKellar