PC flight simulators

On 19 Nov 2003 22:30:20 GMT, (ArtKramr) wrote:

Subject: PC flight simulators
From: Steve
Date: 11/19/03 2:22 PM Pacific Standard Time

1943!! ROFLMAO!!

If you were with us (The 344th Bomb Group) in 1943 I don't think you would
have found much to laugh about. We sure didn't. There was a lot going on, but
none of it was very funny.

I waw refering to the simulator that you mentioned...that was way better
than todays flight sims.

Only REAL MEN flew the B-26. And only the B-26 could scare the **** out of the
elephant.(grin)

Now my great great great grandfather fought at Waterloo. He was on horseback
and fought with a sword. Not at 10,000ft, eye to eye. Now thats a REAL MAN.

;-) :-)

Just to add. No personal disrespect to you was intended of course.


--
Steve.

On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:16:31 GMT, "Pete" wrote:

But put that same Aces High desk jock in a real fighter, and you'll have
some poor crew chief spending the afternoon cleaning puke out of the
cockpit. If the jet comes back.

Familiarity in the particular environment. Spend a few hundred (or thousand)
hours working a particular tool (be it jet or sim) and you might get pretty
good. But being good in one does not instantly translate into being good in
the other.

A true Top Gun, but Aces High neophyte is working off a different set of
reflexes and responses. And conversely, the Aces High ace has internalized
the peculiarities and limitations of the PC sim environment.

Pete

Where PC based combat sims excel is at teaching Situational Awareness and basic
ACM, even advanced ACM.

I'm sure any combat pilot will tell that no other factor has a greater impact
upon survival than SA. I would venture to say that it is the single greatest
asset a combat pilot could possess. Moreover, it is, IMHO, the most difficult
skill to teach and learn.

There are factors in the simulation that actually make it more difficult than in
real life. You have a single portal through which you must view the world around
you. To scan the sky around you, an actual pilot merely turns his head. Flying a
PC sim, you must do this via a series of hand manipulated inputs either thru a
hat switch or specific keystrokes. Either way, it requires greater effort and
concentration to do this as deftly as one moves one's own head. Yet, this must
be done constantly, and you must learn to do it instinctively to boot. Just 10
seconds of inattentiveness is all it takes to get clobbered.

Cockpit workload is minimized to a degree by the absence of an electrical system
and simplified hydraulic controls. Reliability is completely removed as a factor
as only battle damaged systems can fail. However, if a system is damaged, you
still have to manage the aircraft and get it home if possible.

Some things still remain. Weapon selector switches, fuel selector, propeller
controls, trim tab adjustment, two channel radio (with hundreds of frequencies)
and so on. There are some tidbits to help inexperienced players such as "combat
trim", which constantly trims the airplane based upon its speed. However, this
can substantially cut into agility when you have to fight the auto-trim, so
experienced players simply trim the aircraft manually. This is done via
keystrokes or on the more sophisticated controllers, via thumbwheels on the
HOTAS.

Furthermore, things have evolved a very long way from the old days of
microswitch joysticks. A good controller system can easily set you back $200.
However, this includes a programmable stick and throttle, along with rudder
pedals with toe brakes. Systems programmable for hundreds of functions are
commonplace. Virtually every input to the simulator is adjustable. The big names
in flight controllers include CH Products, Saitek and Thrustmaster.

Then there are environmental issues, rain, cloud cover, wind and darkness (yes,
we have night time too, albeit abbreviated).

Some things are over simplified in my opinion. Starting engines is a matter of
pushing a single button. Going to full power on a cold engine does nothing to
harm it. There's no cooler doors and cowl flaps to manage. There's no collisions
between friendly aircraft (but there sure is with enemy aircraft). To prevent
misbehavior, you cannot shoot down a friendly as the apparent damage is assigned
to your aircraft. This is called "killshooter", and it is sometimes disabled in
the Combat Theater, but is always on in the Main Arena.

A word about the various arenas. Most of the action is in the Main Arena, also
known as the MA. There is one of many maps up, the larger ones covering areas
greater than 27,000 square miles. This arena is set up with three warring
nations, each fighting the other two. There are no restrictions as to what type
of aircraft (or vehicle) you wish to fly or operate, other than the higher
performance aircraft require perk points to be accumulated before you can fly
them. You earn perk points by killing the enemy or successfully destroying
ground targets. The number of points is dependent upon what you kill and what
you are flying. For example, you earn more points for killing an Fw 190D-9 with
a P-40E than vice versa. Should you lose the "perked" aircraft, you lose the
perk points as well. Peak perk point cost is determined by the number of pilots
flying for your country. Cost goes up or down with those numbers.

You may find yourself fighting against virtually any aircraft in the plane set.
Mustangs vs Spitfire, Bf 109G-6 vs Ki-61 and so on. Most players are members of
structured and well organized squadrons, some with traditions that go back to
the MSDOS days of Air Warrior. It sounds hokey, but it does allow for better
organization within a country. The objective is to reduce one the enemy
countries to a single base facility by capturing their territory. That is the
gamey part of the simulation/game, which I do not care for.

There is also the Combat Theater which is structured along historical lines and
consists of two countries. However, the same land grab objective is also in
place. Set-ups are changed weekly, so one week you can fly an F4F-4 defending
Guadalcanal and the next week fly a Yak in defense of Mother Russia or take on
the Luftwaffe's Bf 109s in a Commonwealth Kittyhawk over Tunisia.

There is also a Training Arena and a Dueling Arena, their titles being
self-explanatory.

Finally, there is Special Events Arena (SEA) where weekly events are held, such
as the Wednesday night Snapshots (two hour historical scenarios). There are also
large, multi-week historical events played in frames of 2-3 hours each Saturday
for three or four weeks.

What's a typical combat sortie like in Aces High? Here's a brief AAR of a recent
sortie.

Word was received of a large enemy gaggle of aircraft headed towards one of our
forward airfields. I immediately selected that airfield on the map and
double-click on the icon. That puts me in the control tower. A quick scan around
the field reveals more than a dozen Hawker Typhoons with P-51s for cover making
bomb and rocket runs on the airfield. Too late to get airborne, I man a 40mm
anti-aircraft gun. I score hits on two Typhoons, both going straight into the
ground. But, there are too many to deal with and my gun mount is disabled by a
strafing fighter-bomber. So I go to the nearest airfield to get a fighter.
Meanwhile, one of the guys that I had just shot down sends a message on the
general text buffer (you can write messages to anyone in the channel 1 text
buffer, everyone online sees this text unless you purposefully squelch the
channel). PilotX writes, "Widewing, was that you in the friggin ack?"

"You bet!", I replied.

PilotX then types, "Fly an airplane, you fukkin jerk!"
(note that people alter spelling deliberately to avoid the wrath of the
auto-censor)

Even while he typed his remark, I'm easing on power to a P-51D, fueled with just
half tanks, more than enough for this sortie. Speed and agility are required,
not range, the enemy being just 30 miles away.

You need a lot of rudder and aileron to counteract the torque of the growling
Merlin as speed begins to build. Tail is up now, speed building quickly, and at
140 mph I rotate the Mustang just enough to let her slip off the runway. In a
very shallow climb, I cycle the gear up, a quick glance shows me three good
flags. I ease the nose up, maintaining optimum speed for the best rate of climb.
At 12,000 feet I level off, rocketing along at full Military power. In minutes
I'm hustling towards the enemy at better than 400 mph.

Five miles out now, and I can see the swarming dots, all below my altitude.

At two miles, I can identify all the aircraft, several Typhoons, Mustangs and a
few La-7s and Spitfires are strafing and bombing the field.

Guns hot, I pull off throttle and split-s in on a pair of P-51s oblivious to my
presence. Side slipping to limit my speed, I dive beneath the heavily laden
Mustangs and rocket in on their low six. I pick the trailing plane to the left
and let his wingspan fill the gunsight. A short burst crashes into the P-51, and
the left wing tumbles off. Quick feet on the rudder and I skid behind the
second, still blissfully unaware of the danger. At 200 yards a one-second burst
sends this Mustang on its death plunge, smoke and fire trailing behind. I
immediately pull into a climbing left-hand spiral, clearing my own six and
giving a good view of the mayhem below. Lot's of enemy aircraft still beating up
the field. I spot a lone La-7 slightlybelow me on an opposite course.
Unloading, I throttle up and accelerate towards the speedy Russian fighter. I'm
about 1,000 feet above him and as I pass over he does what all Lavochkin pilots
do in this situation, he pulls up into an inverted zoom climb trying for a low
attack. The counter is simple, I pull into an oblique loop, deploying maneuver
flaps as I come over the top. This forces the La-7 to go pure vertical, and he
can't keep the nose high anywhere near long enough… As the Soviet fighter
stalls, it flips onto its back, the pilot fighting to avoid a spin. Before he
even realizes the danger, a concentration of .50 caliber API literally blows the
entire tail off of his Lavochkin. It flutters down like 3 ton leaf.

That was the last fighter above 5,000 feet. Everything else is below that.
That's means, it's PARTY TIME!

I spiral down assessing the situation. Seeing a Typhoon diving on a rocket run I
see another easy opportunity. Typically, these guys dive down, pickle off some
rockets, then zoom up, reverse at the top of the zoom and repeat. I race over to
meet him at the top of his zoom. Right on schedule, the big Tiffie looms up in
planform, I need very little lead. The entire burst slams into the wing root and
cockpit. A bright orange flash indicates that the Typhoon is no more. The
notification text buffer states that "you have shot down PilotX". LOLOLOL. I
blast through the debris and look for the next target.

To the southeast I see two dots moving low and slow about 1,000 feet above the
forest. I know what those are, C-47s packed with paratroops destined for the
base. Racing towards the transports I drop a notch of flaps, trim the elevators
a bit. Power to idle, split-s down on the transports. Once again, they don't see
me until it's too late. One burning Goony dives into the trees. The second
breaks hard to the left, but he has no chance and his fuel tanks explode on my
first gunnery run.

Well, the loss of both C-47s has seriously incensed the remaining enemy, and all
of them are trying to claw their way up to my upwardly spiraling Mustang.
Typhoons are poor climbers, but their four Hispano cannon make them very
dangerous. Yet none can get near me. However, a Fw 190D-9 "Dora" is coming on
strong. Again, I unload and throttle into WEP. Dragging the Dora away from his
friends, we race North at 4,000 feet. Once I have about 3,000 yards of
separation, I reverse and head straight at him. Typically, he tries for a
head-on shot, but I roll out of the way, chop throttle, drop maneuver flaps and
reverse again. The Dora executes the standard Fw 190 climbing reverse. I
expected that, which is why I dumped E rapidly to get the deflection shot as he
zooms past, searching for the P-51 that just disappeared. My nose up about 20
degrees, climbing on a track to intercept the Focke Wulf, the Dora claws around,
the pilot not seeing me below his left wing. At 350 yards I take the 80 degree
deflection shot, and see hit flashes forward near his prop. A steady stream of
fluid pours out. Coolant, the Dora is fatally injured. Rolling in on his tail
700 yards back, I send another short burst his way, a few hit strikes evident.
Rolling right, the Dora breaks hard. Dumb, very dumb. My Mustang easily cuts
across his turn and a half-second burst blows off the outer half of his right
wing. The pilot struggles to retain control, but the loss of lift combined with
torque corkscrews the Dora into an open field.

Having expended about two-thirds of my ammunition, I head back towards the hard
pressed airfield. Fuel is barely adequate with about 25% remaining, meaning that
I have about 10 minutes before it becomes a real issue.

Arriving over the field at 10,000 feet, I see that the enemy has departed the
immediate vicinity, but spot two low dots running on the deck towards the
southwest. Well, a clear field means fuel is not a factor now, so I begin a
shallow dive in pursuit of the fleeing enemy. Winding the Mustang up to 500 mph
TAS, I close rapidly on the tow contacts, now discernable as a Bf 109 and a
La-7.

Closing quickly I see the 109 is smoking heavily, black smoke indicating that
light tripleA had drilled either an oil line or the cooler itself. Once the oil
is gone, the engine will seize, so the 109 won't be a threat for very long. As I
roar in the split up, the 109 going left, the Lavochkin going right. I go after
the healthy La-7. Typical of the tactics used by La-7 and La-5 drivers, the La-7
progressively tightens his turn, hoping I'll do likewise and burn down my E. The
La-7 accelerates faster than the Mustang, and climbs much faster until about
8,000 feet where it evens out. I pull into a high yo-yo, throttle back and
deploying flaps to the maneuver setting. I won't kill my speed without some
altitude in my hip pocket. Besides, I'm still above him, squarely on his 6
o'clock. Initially, the Lavochkin driver doesn't realize that I'm above him and
reverses hoping for the overshoot that will not happen. That reverse gives me a
solid opportunity for a 45 degree deflection shot, but first a quick scan for
that 109. I see his dot receding into the haze. He's gittin gone while the
gittin is good. Tough break for the La-7... I pull the nose through the La-7 as
the pilot pulls hard having finally spotted me. Too late though, my guns stitch
the Russian fighter from nose to tail. Smoke pours out and the La-7 snap rolls
into the ground.

Fully cognizant of my tactical situation, I turn a full 360, clearing my tail.
Once again, I unload and pour on power heading towards the airfield, about 5
miles northeast.

I check the map and the airfield icon is flashing. That means that there is yet
another enemy within 15 miles of the base. I ease up to 3,000 ft and finally
spot him weaving around hills and knolls. Another C-47 is trying to sneak in. I
head directly for the Goony Bird, he sees me and turns hard right. I fire and
blast his left wing and #1 engine, which windmills uselessly. I line up again
and he breaks to the left this time, but the weakened wing gives way and the
C-47 cartwheels into the trees.

Fuel and ammo are getting critical now, so I once again head for the airfield,
but that damn map icon is STILL blinking!

As my speed edges above 300 mph, I spot an enemy Typhoon about 5,000 feet above
and behind me on the same heading.

Here he comes, claws out and hauling ass. Too fast to bring guns to bear when I
break. I jink right, vector roll and break left, immediately reversing to the
right. As the Typhoon blows by he pulls into a steep climb. Again, that was
expected. That's all the Tiffie drivers ever do, zoom up. Not a problem though,
as I'm very near the airfield parameter, meaning that the Typhoon will have to
brave the tripleA to try again. As Forrest Gump taught us, stupid is as stupid
does, and the Typhoon driver does something stupid. On his way back down he
decides to strafe one of the 20 mm guns plinking at him. That buys me about 5
seconds, and that's all I needed for a 90 degree snap shot as he blows by. I
take the shot and see some strikes. His left elevator control surface flutters
to the ground. That's very bad news for him. Tiffies aren't stellar turners as
it is, now it's little more than a fast whale. If he was a smart pilot, he would
bug out, using his E advantage to disengage. However, this isn't a smart pilot.
Instead, turns left, but the turn radius is huge. Once again with maneuver flaps
out, I turn towards the big Hawker, circling to the left, inside his circle,
slightly aft of him. I ease off and fire a distraction burst his way, just
missing in front. I notice that only two guns are firing now, that means there's
less than 200 rounds in the magazines. But that will be enough. Somewhat scared
now, the Typhoon pilot rolls right and reverses his turn. As was the case with
the Dora, this is a bad idea. The big Tiffie is a miserable roller, and my
reverse puts me just 500 yards behind. I fire two short bursts, the first of
which punctures his radiator. The second burst carries away his vertical
stabilizer and the Typhoon yaws with the torque and tumbles into the ground.

"You shot down PilotX"

LOLOLOLOL......

With my fuel down to less than 5%, I pull off power and dirty up for landing.
Coming to a stop on the runway, the engine quits for lack of gas and I exit the
Mustang.

"Widewing landed 10 victories in a P-51D of the =Ghosts="

Time to rub it in a bit. In the channel 1 text buffer I type, "So PilotX, I flew
an airplane, are you satisfied?"

No response.....

Sometimes it's the little things that bring the most satisfaction.. :

My regards,

Widewing (C.C. Jordan)
http://www.worldwar2aviation.com
http://www.cradleofaviation.org

You seem to think the MS sims are etched in stone. New ones are release
every couple of years to take advantage of the newer and better technology.
While I'm sure they will never be as good as the state of the art stuff you
used in WW2, still they are getting pretty good. Buy a decent computer and
try out the latest, you might be surprised.

Jarg

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: PC flight simulators
From: "Jarg"
Date: 11/21/03 7:50 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Funny you should say that. I was just chatting with a 60 year old pilot
who
had recently tried his son's flight simulator (FS2004) for the first time
and was able to land. He said he was impressed with what he saw.

Jarg

When I first got MSFS I got a big kickj out of shooting carrier landings
(no
arresting wire) in a number of different planes. I got so good at it that
I
could touch down at the first 6 inches of deck and brake to a stop before
running off the other end. I am certain that if you put me in a real
plane I
could do those carrier landings easily even without the arresting wire.
You
believe that don't you?. Wanna buy a bridge?

Regards,


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

One note, the Track IR allows you to can in a simulator using your head,
adds a little more realism. Of course it works imperfectly in my
experience.

Jarg

"Corey C. Jordan" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:16:31 GMT, "Pete" wrote:

But put that same Aces High desk jock in a real fighter, and you'll have
some poor crew chief spending the afternoon cleaning puke out of the
cockpit. If the jet comes back.

Familiarity in the particular environment. Spend a few hundred (or
thousand)
hours working a particular tool (be it jet or sim) and you might get
pretty
good. But being good in one does not instantly translate into being good
in
the other.

A true Top Gun, but Aces High neophyte is working off a different set of
reflexes and responses. And conversely, the Aces High ace has
internalized
the peculiarities and limitations of the PC sim environment.

Pete

Where PC based combat sims excel is at teaching Situational Awareness and
basic
ACM, even advanced ACM.

I'm sure any combat pilot will tell that no other factor has a greater
impact
upon survival than SA. I would venture to say that it is the single
greatest
asset a combat pilot could possess. Moreover, it is, IMHO, the most
difficult
skill to teach and learn.

There are factors in the simulation that actually make it more difficult
than in
real life. You have a single portal through which you must view the world
around
you. To scan the sky around you, an actual pilot merely turns his head.
Flying a
PC sim, you must do this via a series of hand manipulated inputs either
thru a
hat switch or specific keystrokes. Either way, it requires greater effort
and
concentration to do this as deftly as one moves one's own head. Yet, this
must
be done constantly, and you must learn to do it instinctively to boot.
Just 10
seconds of inattentiveness is all it takes to get clobbered.

Cockpit workload is minimized to a degree by the absence of an electrical
system
and simplified hydraulic controls. Reliability is completely removed as a
factor
as only battle damaged systems can fail. However, if a system is damaged,
you
still have to manage the aircraft and get it home if possible.

Some things still remain. Weapon selector switches, fuel selector,
propeller
controls, trim tab adjustment, two channel radio (with hundreds of
frequencies)
and so on. There are some tidbits to help inexperienced players such as
"combat
trim", which constantly trims the airplane based upon its speed. However,
this
can substantially cut into agility when you have to fight the auto-trim,
so
experienced players simply trim the aircraft manually. This is done via
keystrokes or on the more sophisticated controllers, via thumbwheels on
the
HOTAS.

Furthermore, things have evolved a very long way from the old days of
microswitch joysticks. A good controller system can easily set you back
$200.
However, this includes a programmable stick and throttle, along with
rudder
pedals with toe brakes. Systems programmable for hundreds of functions are
commonplace. Virtually every input to the simulator is adjustable. The big
names
in flight controllers include CH Products, Saitek and Thrustmaster.

Then there are environmental issues, rain, cloud cover, wind and darkness
(yes,
we have night time too, albeit abbreviated).

Some things are over simplified in my opinion. Starting engines is a
matter of
pushing a single button. Going to full power on a cold engine does nothing
to
harm it. There's no cooler doors and cowl flaps to manage. There's no
collisions
between friendly aircraft (but there sure is with enemy aircraft). To
prevent
misbehavior, you cannot shoot down a friendly as the apparent damage is
assigned
to your aircraft. This is called "killshooter", and it is sometimes
disabled in
the Combat Theater, but is always on in the Main Arena.

A word about the various arenas. Most of the action is in the Main Arena,
also
known as the MA. There is one of many maps up, the larger ones covering
areas
greater than 27,000 square miles. This arena is set up with three warring
nations, each fighting the other two. There are no restrictions as to what
type
of aircraft (or vehicle) you wish to fly or operate, other than the higher
performance aircraft require perk points to be accumulated before you can
fly
them. You earn perk points by killing the enemy or successfully destroying
ground targets. The number of points is dependent upon what you kill and
what
you are flying. For example, you earn more points for killing an Fw 190D-9
with
a P-40E than vice versa. Should you lose the "perked" aircraft, you lose
the
perk points as well. Peak perk point cost is determined by the number of
pilots
flying for your country. Cost goes up or down with those numbers.

You may find yourself fighting against virtually any aircraft in the plane
set.
Mustangs vs Spitfire, Bf 109G-6 vs Ki-61 and so on. Most players are
members of
structured and well organized squadrons, some with traditions that go back
to
the MSDOS days of Air Warrior. It sounds hokey, but it does allow for
better
organization within a country. The objective is to reduce one the enemy
countries to a single base facility by capturing their territory. That is
the
gamey part of the simulation/game, which I do not care for.

There is also the Combat Theater which is structured along historical
lines and
consists of two countries. However, the same land grab objective is also
in
place. Set-ups are changed weekly, so one week you can fly an F4F-4
defending
Guadalcanal and the next week fly a Yak in defense of Mother Russia or
take on
the Luftwaffe's Bf 109s in a Commonwealth Kittyhawk over Tunisia.

There is also a Training Arena and a Dueling Arena, their titles being
self-explanatory.

Finally, there is Special Events Arena (SEA) where weekly events are held,
such
as the Wednesday night Snapshots (two hour historical scenarios). There
are also
large, multi-week historical events played in frames of 2-3 hours each
Saturday
for three or four weeks.

What's a typical combat sortie like in Aces High? Here's a brief AAR of a
recent
sortie.

Word was received of a large enemy gaggle of aircraft headed towards one
of our
forward airfields. I immediately selected that airfield on the map and
double-click on the icon. That puts me in the control tower. A quick scan
around
the field reveals more than a dozen Hawker Typhoons with P-51s for cover
making
bomb and rocket runs on the airfield. Too late to get airborne, I man a
40mm
anti-aircraft gun. I score hits on two Typhoons, both going straight into
the
ground. But, there are too many to deal with and my gun mount is disabled
by a
strafing fighter-bomber. So I go to the nearest airfield to get a fighter.
Meanwhile, one of the guys that I had just shot down sends a message on
the
general text buffer (you can write messages to anyone in the channel 1
text
buffer, everyone online sees this text unless you purposefully squelch the
channel). PilotX writes, "Widewing, was that you in the friggin ack?"

"You bet!", I replied.

PilotX then types, "Fly an airplane, you fukkin jerk!"
(note that people alter spelling deliberately to avoid the wrath of the
auto-censor)

Even while he typed his remark, I'm easing on power to a P-51D, fueled
with just
half tanks, more than enough for this sortie. Speed and agility are
required,
not range, the enemy being just 30 miles away.

You need a lot of rudder and aileron to counteract the torque of the
growling
Merlin as speed begins to build. Tail is up now, speed building quickly,
and at
140 mph I rotate the Mustang just enough to let her slip off the runway.
In a
very shallow climb, I cycle the gear up, a quick glance shows me three
good
flags. I ease the nose up, maintaining optimum speed for the best rate of
climb.
At 12,000 feet I level off, rocketing along at full Military power. In
minutes
I'm hustling towards the enemy at better than 400 mph.

Five miles out now, and I can see the swarming dots, all below my
altitude.

At two miles, I can identify all the aircraft, several Typhoons, Mustangs
and a
few La-7s and Spitfires are strafing and bombing the field.

Guns hot, I pull off throttle and split-s in on a pair of P-51s oblivious
to my
presence. Side slipping to limit my speed, I dive beneath the heavily
laden
Mustangs and rocket in on their low six. I pick the trailing plane to the
left
and let his wingspan fill the gunsight. A short burst crashes into the
P-51, and
the left wing tumbles off. Quick feet on the rudder and I skid behind the
second, still blissfully unaware of the danger. At 200 yards a one-second
burst
sends this Mustang on its death plunge, smoke and fire trailing behind. I
immediately pull into a climbing left-hand spiral, clearig my own six and
giving a good view of the mayhem below. Lot's of enemy aircraft still
beating up
the field. I spot a lone La-7 slightly below me on an opposite course.
Unloading, I throttle up and accelerate towards the speedy Russian
fighter. I'm
about 1,000 feet above him and as I pass over he does what all Lavochkin
pilots
do in this situation, he pulls up into an inverted zoom climb trying for a
low
attack. The counter is simple, I pull into an oblique loop, deploying
maneuver
flaps as I come over the top. This forces the La-7 to go pure vertical,
and he
can't keep the nose high anywhere near long enough. As the Soviet fighter
stalls, it flips onto its back, the pilot fighting to avoid a spin. Before
he
even realizes the danger, a concentration of .50 caliber API literally
blows the
entire tail off of his Lavochkin. It flutters down like 3 ton leaf.

That was the last fighter above 5,000 feet. Everything else is below that.
That's means, it's PARTY TIME!

I spiral down assessing the situation. Seeing a Typhoon diving on a rocket
run I
see another easy opportunity. Typically, these guys dive down, pickle off
some
rockets, then zoom up, reverse at the top of the zoom and repeat. I race
over to
meet him at the top of his zoom. Right on schedule, the big Tiffie looms
up in
planform, I need very little lead. The entire burst slams into the wing
root and
cockpit. A bright orange flash indicates that the Typhoon is no more. The
notification text buffer states that "you have shot down PilotX". LOLOLOL.
I
blast through the debris and look for the next target.

To the southeast I see two dots moving low and slow about 1,000 feet above
the
forest. I know what those are, C-47s packed with paratroops destined for
the
base. Racing towards the transports I drop a notch of flaps, trim the
elevators
a bit. Power to idle, split-s down on the transports. Once again, they
don't see
me until it's too late. One burning Goony dives into the trees. The second
breaks hard to the left, but he has no chance and his fuel tanks explode
on my
first gunnery run.

Well, the loss of both C-47s has seriously incensed the remaining enemy,
and all
of them are trying to claw their way up to my upwardly spiraling Mustang.
Typhoons are poor climbers, but their four Hispano cannon make them very
dangerous. Yet none can get near me. However, a Fw 190D-9 "Dora" is coming
on
strong. Again, I unload and throttle into WEP. Dragging the Dora away from
his
friends, we race North at 4,000 feet. Once I have about 3,000 yards of
separation, I reverse and head straight at him. Typically, he tries for a
head-on shot, but I roll out of the way, chop throttle, drop maneuver
flaps and
reverse again. The Dora executes the standard Fw 190 climbing reverse. I
expected that, which is why I dumped E rapidly to get the deflection shot
as he
zooms past, searching for the P-51 that just disappeared. My nose up about
20
degrees, climbing on a track to intercept the Focke Wulf, the Dora claws
around,
the pilot not seeing me below his left wing. At 350 yards I take the 80
degree
deflection shot, and see hit flashes forward near his prop. A steady
stream of
fluid pours out. Coolant, the Dora is fatally injured. Rolling in on his
tail
700 yards back, I send another short burst his way, a few hit strikes
evident.
Rolling right, the Dora breaks hard. Dumb, very dumb. My Mustang easily
cuts
across his turn and a half-second burst blows off the outer half of his
right
wing. The pilot struggles to retain control, but the loss of lift combined
with
torque corkscrews the Dora into an open field.

Having expended about two-thirds of my ammunition, I head back towards the
hard
pressed airfield. Fuel is barely adequate with about 25% remaining,
meaning that
I have about 10 minutes before it becomes a real issue.

Arriving over the field at 10,000 feet, I see that the enemy has departed
the
immediate vicinity, but spot two low dots running on the deck towards the
southwest. Well, a clear field means fuel is not a factor now, so I begin
a
shallow dive in pursuit of the fleeing enemy. Winding the Mustang up to
500 mph
TAS, I close rapidly on the tow contacts, now discernable as a Bf 109 and
a
La-7.

Closing quickly I see the 109 is smoking heavily, black smoke indicating
that
light tripleA had drilled either an oil line or the cooler itself. Once
the oil
is gone, the engine will seize, so the 109 won't be a threat for very
long. As I
roar in the split up, the 109 going left, the Lavochkin going right. I go
after
the healthy La-7. Typical of the tactics used by La-7 and La-5 drivers,
the La-7
progressively tightens his turn, hoping I'll do likewise and burn down my
E. The
La-7 accelerates faster than the Mustang, and climbs much faster until
about
8,000 feet where it evens out. I pull into a high yo-yo, throttle back and
deploying flaps to the maneuver setting. I won't kill my speed without
some
altitude in my hip pocket. Besides, I'm still above him, squarely on his 6
o'clock. Initially, the Lavochkin driver doesn't realize that I'm above
him and
reverses hoping for the overshoot that will not happen. That reverse gives
me a
solid opportunity for a 45 degree deflection shot, but first a quick scan
for
that 109. I see his dot receding into the haze. He's gittin gone while the
gittin is good. Tough break for the La-7... I pull the nose through the
La-7 as
the pilot pulls hard having finally spotted me. Too late though, my guns
stitch
the Russian fighter from nose to tail. Smoke pours out and the La-7 snap
rolls
into the ground.

Fully cognizant of my tactical situation, I turn a full 360, clearing my
tail.
Once again, I unload and pour on power heading towards the airfield, about
5
miles northeast.

I check the map and the airfield icon is flashing. That means that there
is yet
another enemy within 15 miles of the base. I ease up to 3,000 ft and
finally
spot him weaving around hills and knolls. Another C-47 is trying to sneak
in. I
head directly for the Goony Bird, he sees me and turns hard right. I fire
and
blast his left wing and #1 engine, which windmills uselessly. I line up
again
and he breaks to the left this time, but the weakened wing gives way and
the
C-47 cartwheels into the trees.

Fuel and ammo are getting critical now, so I once again head for the
airfield,
but that damn map icon is STILL blinking!

As my speed edges above 300 mph, I spot an enemy Typhoon about 5,000 feet
above
and behind me on the same heading.

Here he comes, claws out and hauling ass. Too fast to bring guns to bear
when I
break. I jink right, vector roll and break left, immediately reversing to
the
right. As the Typhoon blows by he pulls into a steep climb. Again, that
was
expected. That's all the Tiffie drivers ever do, zoom up. Not a problem
though,
as I'm very near the airfield parameter, meaning that the Typhoon will
have to
brave the tripleA to try again. As Forrest Gump taught us, stupid is as
stupid
does, and the Typhoon driver does something stupid. On his way back down
he
decides to strafe one of the 20 mm guns plinking at him. That buys me
about 5
seconds, and that's all I needed for a 90 degree snap shot as he blows by.
I
take the shot and see some strikes. His left elevator control surface
flutters
to the ground. That's very bad news for him. Tiffies aren't stellar
turners as
it is, now it's little more than a fast whale. If he was a smart pilot, he
would
bug out, using his E advantage to disengage. However, this isn't a smart
pilot.
Instead, turns left, but the turn radius is huge. Once again with maneuver
flaps
out, I turn towards the big Hawker, circling to the left, inside his
circle,
slightly aft of him. I ease off and fire a distraction burst his way, just
missing in front. I notice that only two guns are firing now, that means
there's
less than 200 rounds in the magazines. But that will be enough. Somewhat
scared
now, the Typhoon pilot rolls right and reverses his turn. As was the case
with
the Dora, this is a bad idea. The big Tiffie is a miserable roller, and my
reverse puts me just 500 yards behind. I fire two short bursts, the first
of
which punctures his radiator. The second burst carries away his vertical
stabilizer and the Typhoon yaws with the torque and tumbles into the
ground.

"You shot down PilotX"

LOLOLOLOL......

With my fuel down to less than 5%, I pull off power and dirty up for
landing.
Coming to a stop on the runway, the engine quits for lack of gas and I
exit the
Mustang.

"Widewing landed 10 victories in a P-51D of the =Ghosts="

Time to rub it in a bit. In the channel 1 text buffer I type, "So PilotX,
I flew
an airplane, are you satisfied?"

No response.....

Sometimes it's the little things that bring the most satisfaction.. :

My regards,

Widewing (C.C. Jordan)
http://www.worldwar2aviation.com
http://www.cradleofaviation.org

"Brian Colwell" wrote in message
news:69hvb.445262$pl3.76306@pd7tw3no...

Thanks Vaughn, I was beginning to suffer from a complex....:-)) My 6000
hrs
didn't seem to help that much when I experimented on a PC sim......but my
friends 12 year old was a real ace ..:-))

My hours are only measured in the hundreds, but I have had similar luck
with PC sims. I am sure that any 12 year old could eventually teach me, but
I find the experience to be so different that I am afraid of picking up some
bad habit that will rear up and bite me when I am really flying. I also do
not encourage my students to use them.

Again, they may be good for practicing instrument procedures, but I am
a sailplane CFI.

Vaughn

Widewing, I have studies a lot of ETO air combat footage frame by frame during
restorations. All I have to say is that like the MS Combat Flight sim for WWII,
it sounds like it is too easy to down an enemy plane. The only good P-47 300+
yard shots I have seen are by Roberts and Gabreski. In most footage there are
obvious hits and sometimes sheet metal coming loose, but they usually keep on
flying. Once a wing is blown off an of course, a bail out on film is definite
confirmation.

Granted most of my footage is from P-47's and the way to stay alive in them was
to make a fast attack from higher altitude then run like hell. P-51 pilots
could be much more aggressive about follow ups.

-- Charlie Springer

On 22 Nov 2003 07:28:17 GMT, (Regnirps) wrote:

Widewing, I have studies a lot of ETO air combat footage frame by frame during
restorations. All I have to say is that like the MS Combat Flight sim for WWII,
it sounds like it is too easy to down an enemy plane. The only good P-47 300+
yard shots I have seen are by Roberts and Gabreski. In most footage there are
obvious hits and sometimes sheet metal coming loose, but they usually keep on
flying. Once a wing is blown off an of course, a bail out on film is definite
confirmation.

Granted most of my footage is from P-47's and the way to stay alive in them was
to make a fast attack from higher altitude then run like hell. P-51 pilots
could be much more aggressive about follow ups.

-- Charlie Springer

Hi Charlie.

There are several factors to consider here and I'll address them one by one.

1) Ballistic modeling; HTC was meticulous in using actual ballistic data to
model the aircraft weapons in Aces High. However, they have deliberately (IMHO)
modeled bomber defensive guns with increased power, just to keep bombers viable.
However, the forward firing guns in fighters are fairly accurate for dispersion
and muzzle velocity. Gravity and wind effect accuracy.

2) Marksmanship; Having been involved in twenty to thirty THOUSAND aerial
engagements, I can state without reservation that my shooting skills are vastly
better than any WWII pilot could hope for. I know this because the software
records the hit percentage, which is usually in the 20% range. A typical WWII
pilot would be very fortunate to get 5% of his rounds on his target. Likewise,
players new to the game (less than 200-300 hours) are lucky to reach 2%.
There are also mitigating factors that can reduce your accuracy, such as net
lag and lost data packets. Generally though, it boils down to experience and
practice.

3) Shooting range; Although I didn't state the exact ranges I fired in the post
(with one or two exceptions), typically, I do not fire until the range is below
300 yards. Sometimes I will take a longer shot, but those are purpose shots
fired to cause the enemy to react. For most types of fighter, I set gun
convergence at 300 yards. The exceptions are for the P-38, and Bf 109s where
the armament is concentrated in the nose. I set those at 600 yards as the
dispersion is minimal. Deflection shooting is a skill that many never master.
However, those that do master it and who have flawless SA become the mass
murderers of the game.

4) The damage and ballistic modeling used for MSCF are inferior and far more
"gamey" than that used by HTC for Aces High. MSCF concentrates on graphics
rather than dynamic accuracy.

It's important to remember that many of the "virtual" WWII pilots have more
practical combat experience than entire 8th AF fighter groups! How is that
possible? Stick time, combined with almost endless combat. Between its
deployment to the ETO in early 1943, through the end of the war, the 56th
Fighter Group was credited with 1,006 kills (combining air and ground kills).
I've exceeded that in a single month! I've had months (classified as "tours" in
AH) where I've destroyed over 700 of the enemy, and lost just 15 fighters,
mostly to tripleA.

The greatest difference is that you don't really die or get captured. If you get
shot down, you simply grab another fighter and head off for another fight.

Aces High II, due out in early 2004 is designed to minimize that aspect. All
sorties will be mission based with penalties for NOT returning to base. The idea
is to place greater emphasis on survival, thus adding to the realism by creating
a sense of urgency where none truly exists now. Many players do fly to survive,
but most do not. After all, Aces High is entertainment, and the vast majority of
those who fly the game haven't the talent to achieve a high degree of
proficiency. So, they fly reckless and die often. But at least they're having
fun and providing a target-rich environment for guys like myself, who almost
never lose aircraft, but kill the rank-and-file by the gross.

Think of Aces High as a simulator within a game.... Art is right to some degree,
but the simulator fans are also right in some respects. Understanding this
allows one to place these sims/games in their proper perspective. Just because a
guy is a terrific sim pilot doesn't mean he'd display the same talent flying
real aircraft. Possibly not. However, as a combat pilot trainee the sim player
will have a significant advantage in SA, ACM and tactics knowledge over someone
with no sim experience at the outset of training. Therein lies the value beyond
simple entertainment.

My regards,

Widewing (C.C. Jordan)
http://www.worldwar2aviation.com
http://www.cradleofaviation.org

On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 23:28:37 GMT, "Vaughn"
wrote:

I have a better test, one that many PC "flight simulator" fans say is
somehow unfair. Simply put a qualified pilot that has never "flown"
computers in front of your "flight simulator". If he can take off, fly
safely and return to earth (exactly the same as he could undoubtably do in
the real thing), then you MAY have made a real flight simulator. If he
can't, then whatever it is that you are simulating, it is not flight!

I recall the days of Janes F-15, when Sean Long contributed greatly to one
of the flight sim newsgroups and taught many of us how to land the Mud Hen.
The procedure in the manual didn't work too well and from what I remember,
his teachings were the same as in real life. There were many other aspects
of the sim that seemed to mimic the real thing.

That said, even if PC sims are not "real", they should certainly
be counted as valid training aids.

That depends on exactly what you are simulating and what the training
objective is. Have you ever hear of "negative transfer"?

Like in WWII simulators? :-) Your up's and down's are the wrong way round
etc. Or is there something else?


--
Steve.

(Regnirps) wrote:

Widewing, I have studies a lot of ETO air combat footage frame by frame during
restorations. All I have to say is that like the MS Combat Flight sim for WWII,
it sounds like it is too easy to down an enemy plane. The only good P-47 300+
[...]

Were you restoring the film or restoring aircraft ? I am interested to
know what state gun-camera film is in at this year.