wonders of VFR on top

The other day I wanted to get a clearance to get above an overcast
while in cruise. When I asked for a clearance the controller said it
would be awhile because my destination was more than 500 miles away.
He said he needed to get me a clearance all the way there even though
my intention was to cancel on top. The controller than mentioned that
he could issue me a clearance to VFR-on-top w/o the entire route
clearance. I did that and it worked perfectly. I learned something.

-Robert

On 21 Oct 2004 14:21:35 -0700, (Robert M. Gary)
wrote:

The controller than mentioned that
he could issue me a clearance to VFR-on-top w/o the entire route
clearance. I did that and it worked perfectly. I learned something.


What did you do? Get a clearance to a fix within his sector? Details
would be appreciated.

TIA.
z

If that happens again just ask for a local IFR clearance like you were
going to do practice approaches while IFR. As soon as you get on top
you cancel.



Robert M. Gary wrote:
The other day I wanted to get a clearance to get above an overcast
while in cruise. When I asked for a clearance the controller said it
would be awhile because my destination was more than 500 miles away.
He said he needed to get me a clearance all the way there even though
my intention was to cancel on top. The controller than mentioned that
he could issue me a clearance to VFR-on-top w/o the entire route
clearance. I did that and it worked perfectly. I learned something.

-Robert

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
m...

The other day I wanted to get a clearance to get above an overcast
while in cruise. When I asked for a clearance the controller said it
would be awhile because my destination was more than 500 miles away.


Did you request an IFR clearance to that destination?



He said he needed to get me a clearance all the way there even though
my intention was to cancel on top.


Did you tell him you intended to cancel once in VFR conditions above the
clouds?



The controller than mentioned that
he could issue me a clearance to VFR-on-top w/o the entire route
clearance. I did that and it worked perfectly. I learned something.


He could also give you an IFR clearance without the entire route clearance.
If you did cancel upon reaching VFR conditions above the clouds you were
never operating VFR-on-top.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message ink.net...
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
m...

The other day I wanted to get a clearance to get above an overcast
while in cruise. When I asked for a clearance the controller said it
would be awhile because my destination was more than 500 miles away.


Did you request an IFR clearance to that destination?

No, I said I need to pick up an IFR to climb above an overcast. He
asked me my dest. I told him. He said it would take 15 minutes or so
to get a clearance that far. I told him I would cancel on top. He said
it didn't make a difference he needed to get the clearance all the way
down. This was just south of SeaTac and I was going to California.


He said he needed to get me a clearance all the way there even though
my intention was to cancel on top.


Did you tell him you intended to cancel once in VFR conditions above the
clouds?

Yes




The controller than mentioned that
he could issue me a clearance to VFR-on-top w/o the entire route
clearance. I did that and it worked perfectly. I learned something.


He could also give you an IFR clearance without the entire route clearance.
If you did cancel upon reaching VFR conditions above the clouds you were
never operating VFR-on-top.

He gave me an IFR clearance "to VFR-on-top". He said that issuing the
clearance that way allowed him to not have to wait for the clearance
to go through Oakland Center (or whatever).

Newps wrote in message ...
If that happens again just ask for a local IFR clearance like you were
going to do practice approaches while IFR. As soon as you get on top
you cancel.

I told him I only needed the clearance for 10 miles until I got on
top. He said he still needed to wait for Oakland center unless I just
wanted a clearance to VFR-on-top.

He then issued me the typical to VFR-OT clearance. Climb maint...if
not on top by...etc.

-Robert

zatatime wrote in message . ..
On 21 Oct 2004 14:21:35 -0700, (Robert M. Gary)
wrote:

The controller than mentioned that
he could issue me a clearance to VFR-on-top w/o the entire route
clearance. I did that and it worked perfectly. I learned something.


What did you do? Get a clearance to a fix within his sector? Details
would be appreciated.

He actually issued the clearance all the way to my dest. However, it
was a climb maintain...if not on top by... to VFR on top clearance.
Apparently if he didn't do the VFR on top in the clearance he would
have to wait for the clearance.

-Robert

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...
zatatime wrote in message
. ..
On 21 Oct 2004 14:21:35 -0700, (Robert M. Gary)
wrote:

The controller than mentioned that
he could issue me a clearance to VFR-on-top w/o the entire route
clearance. I did that and it worked perfectly. I learned something.


What did you do? Get a clearance to a fix within his sector? Details
would be appreciated.

He actually issued the clearance all the way to my dest. However, it
was a climb maintain...if not on top by... to VFR on top clearance.
Apparently if he didn't do the VFR on top in the clearance he would
have to wait for the clearance.

I thought that VFR ON TOP was a segment of an IFR flight plan where you
maintain VFR cruise altitudes and visual separation until you resume IFR
altitudes and IFR separation as needed by weather or for arrival.

Here on the California coast were stratus can force an IFR departure to
about 2000ft I ask for an "IFR departure for climb to VFR conditions" with a
clearance from my field to a VOR about 20NM away. Well before I am more than
5 miles from my departure I am above the fog and can cancel IFR and ask for
VFR flight following.
Howard
C182P


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Robert M. Gary wrote:

Newps wrote in message ...

If that happens again just ask for a local IFR clearance like you were
going to do practice approaches while IFR. As soon as you get on top
you cancel.


I told him I only needed the clearance for 10 miles until I got on
top. He said he still needed to wait for Oakland center unless I just
wanted a clearance to VFR-on-top.

He then issued me the typical to VFR-OT clearance. Climb maint...if
not on top by...etc.

I've never used an IFR to VFR on top clearance. What are the subleties
of this? What is the clearance limit? What are the lost comm
procedures if the clearance limit isn't an airport? What if you don't
break out when you expect to find VFR?


Matt

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...

Did you request an IFR clearance to that destination?


No, I said I need to pick up an IFR to climb above an overcast. He
asked me my dest. I told him. He said it would take 15 minutes or so
to get a clearance that far. I told him I would cancel on top. He said
it didn't make a difference he needed to get the clearance all the way
down. This was just south of SeaTac and I was going to California.


There's no reason he'd have to issue a clearance all the way to your
destination.



He could also give you an IFR clearance without the entire route
clearance.
If you did cancel upon reaching VFR conditions above the clouds you were
never operating VFR-on-top.


He gave me an IFR clearance "to VFR-on-top".


As in "cleared to VFR-on-top" instead of "cleared to [fix]"? That's a
fairly common mistake made by inexperienced controllers. They issue
VFR-on-top in lieu of a clearance limit instead of a hard altitude.



He said that issuing the
clearance that way allowed him to not have to wait for the clearance
to go through Oakland Center (or whatever).


It's no different from any other IFR clearance. If the clearance limit is
outside of his airspace he has to coordinate with another controller
somewhere. If the clearance limit is within his airspace there's nobody to
coordinate with.