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Gliding risk....



 
 
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  #31  
Old November 1st 19, 01:07 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Craig Funston[_3_]
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Posts: 129
Default Gliding risk....

On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 4:56:24 PM UTC-7, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 4:20:55 PM UTC-7, wrote:

The Isle of Mann TT is an outlier even among motorcycle racing.


Beat me to it. In my experience, racing at a well-equipped track like Sonoma (nee Sears Point) is safer than riding on the street. Everyone is going the same direction, no car is going to try to make a U-turn right in front of you, and all of the obstructions are padded. In the four years I raced at Sears Point, we only had one fatality.


Indeed. I believe Isle of Mann averages just over one fatality per year. Insanity.
  #32  
Old November 1st 19, 01:10 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2KA
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Posts: 225
Default Gliding risk....

What Ramy says is true, in the US at least. A look at NTSB accident reports shows that experienced pilots (including commercial pilots, frequent contest participants, and the like) make up a large or even the largest share of fatalities. Fatal accidents involving very low-time pilots are quite rare..

My own interpretation of this is that complacency can be a much bigger safety problem than lack of skill.

I have more than 4000 hours flown over 48 years. I think I am smack in the middle of the most dangerous demographic.

Lynn Alley
"2KA"
  #33  
Old November 1st 19, 03:11 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Martin Gregorie[_6_]
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Posts: 699
Default Gliding risk....

On Thu, 31 Oct 2019 09:39:40 -0700, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 5:49:22 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
For those who haven’t seen it....

https://chessintheair.com/the-risk-o...-what-we-love/


A GREAT Read on this subject is "Fate is the Hunter". Ernest Gann.


+1


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

  #34  
Old November 1st 19, 04:56 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
danlj
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Posts: 124
Default Gliding risk....

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 8:57:36 PM UTC-5, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 8:49:22 PM UTC-4, wrote:
For those who haven’t seen it....
https://chessintheair.com/the-risk-o...-what-we-love/


Interesting stats. Counts of friends I've lost a few different ways:
- driving: 0
- motorcycle: 0
- bicycling: 1
- medical malpractice: 2
- hang-gliding (where I don't know so many): a couple
- general aviation: a few
- gliding: 25

After the first few friends I lost in gliding, I wrote this (recently reprinted in Soaring):
http://www.nadler.com/public/Nadler_...g_May_1987.pdf

Be careful out there,
Best Regards, Dave


A few years ago, I sat next to Judge McWhorter during the SSA convention safety presentation, at which gliding fatalities were related to hours of exposure to risk (in flight).
Judge's career has been in coal-mining safety. Listening to the numbers, he said, "Soaring is more dangerous than coal mining."
  #35  
Old November 1st 19, 05:15 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bruce Hoult
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Posts: 961
Default Gliding risk....

On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 4:56:24 PM UTC-7, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 4:20:55 PM UTC-7, wrote:

The Isle of Mann TT is an outlier even among motorcycle racing.


Beat me to it. In my experience, racing at a well-equipped track like Sonoma (nee Sears Point) is safer than riding on the street. Everyone is going the same direction, no car is going to try to make a U-turn right in front of you, and all of the obstructions are padded. In the four years I raced at Sears Point, we only had one fatality.


Formula 1, rated on that page as ten times more dangerous than flying gliders, was insanely dangerous in the 1960s and 1970s, but in recent times went 30 years between deaths -- and that one was due to utter stupidity, with a driver failing to observe the warning flags warning to slow down because a large tractor was retrieving a car that had (safely!) left the track and hit the barriers, running off the road in the same spot, and hitting the tractor...
  #36  
Old November 1st 19, 07:39 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 62
Default Gliding risk....

On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 3:54:26 AM UTC+2, wrote:
I quit reading when the data presented listed motorcycling safer than ‘gliding’. By 100%.
Hmmm.....don’t think so.
R


It depends a lot on what is included in motorcycling. If you include the millions who use scooters as their daily commute in the Far East puttering along at 30km/h, then motorcycling would be considered as pretty low risk. If you consider just the people using the motorcycle as a hobby and think of superbikes racing at crazy speeds in traffic or on mountain roads, then the statistics related to risk become very different. But even considering just superbikes, I have lost more friends gliding than motorcycling.

Clinton
  #37  
Old November 1st 19, 07:50 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 62
Default Gliding risk....

A few years ago, I sat next to Judge McWhorter during the SSA convention safety presentation, at which gliding fatalities were related to hours of exposure to risk (in flight).
Judge's career has been in coal-mining safety. Listening to the numbers, he said, "Soaring is more dangerous than coal mining."


As somebody in the mining industry in South Africa (which has worse mining safety figures than the U.S.) - I can vouch for the fact that coal mining is pretty safe when considering the statistics.

Clinton Birch
  #38  
Old November 1st 19, 08:56 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Paul T[_4_]
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Posts: 259
Default Gliding risk....

At 00:07 01 November 2019, Craig Funston wrote:
On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 4:56:24 PM UTC-7, Bob

Kuykendall wrote:
On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 4:20:55 PM UTC-7,


wro=
te:
=20
The Isle of Mann TT is an outlier even among motorcycle

racing.
=20
Beat me to it. In my experience, racing at a well-equipped track

like
Son=
oma (nee Sears Point) is safer than riding on the street. Everyone

is
going=
the same direction, no car is going to try to make a U-turn right in
front=
of you, and all of the obstructions are padded. In the four years I

raced
=
at Sears Point, we only had one fatality.

Indeed. I believe Isle of Mann averages just over one fatality per

year.
In=
sanity.


All activities have a risk/reward element People who race the Isle of
Man know the risks and accept them, but for them the rewards in
participating in this activity outweigh the risks -if the risks are too
much for you don't do it ... but don't call people who do insane -
that's imposing your value judgement on to others..

  #39  
Old November 1st 19, 03:04 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 478
Default Gliding risk....

On Friday, November 1, 2019 at 4:00:06 AM UTC-4, Paul T wrote:
At 00:07 01 November 2019, Craig Funston wrote:
On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 4:56:24 PM UTC-7, Bob

Kuykendall wrote:
On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 4:20:55 PM UTC-7,


wro=
te:
=20
The Isle of Mann TT is an outlier even among motorcycle

racing.
=20
Beat me to it. In my experience, racing at a well-equipped track

like
Son=
oma (nee Sears Point) is safer than riding on the street. Everyone

is
going=
the same direction, no car is going to try to make a U-turn right in
front=
of you, and all of the obstructions are padded. In the four years I

raced
=
at Sears Point, we only had one fatality.

Indeed. I believe Isle of Mann averages just over one fatality per

year.
In=
sanity.


All activities have a risk/reward element People who race the Isle of
Man know the risks and accept them, but for them the rewards in
participating in this activity outweigh the risks -if the risks are too
much for you don't do it ... but don't call people who do insane -
that's imposing your value judgement on to others..


I'm with you on that. The Isle of Man is fantastic.
  #40  
Old November 1st 19, 05:12 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 4,601
Default Gliding risk....

I'll bet those Isle of Mann racers actually DO get hot chicks and free
beer...

On 11/1/2019 1:56 AM, Paul T wrote:
At 00:07 01 November 2019, Craig Funston wrote:
On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 4:56:24 PM UTC-7, Bob

Kuykendall wrote:
On Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 4:20:55 PM UTC-7,


wro=
te:
=20
The Isle of Mann TT is an outlier even among motorcycle

racing.
=20
Beat me to it. In my experience, racing at a well-equipped track

like
Son=
oma (nee Sears Point) is safer than riding on the street. Everyone

is
going=
the same direction, no car is going to try to make a U-turn right in
front=
of you, and all of the obstructions are padded. In the four years I

raced
=
at Sears Point, we only had one fatality.

Indeed. I believe Isle of Mann averages just over one fatality per

year.
In=
sanity.

All activities have a risk/reward element People who race the Isle of
Man know the risks and accept them, but for them the rewards in
participating in this activity outweigh the risks -if the risks are too
much for you don't do it ... but don't call people who do insane -
that's imposing your value judgement on to others..


--
Dan, 5J
 




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