If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Another midair in the pattern
When I see the NTSB report 2 aircraft accidents at the same date, time
& place, it only means one thing. They came together in the air or on the ground. On 12/20/10 in Madras Origon, a Taylorcraft and Cessna came together while both were trying to land on runway16. The Taylorcraft didn't have a radio! Please don't fly without a radio and use it, Establish communication with your tow pilot by a simple com- check like; Red tow this is JJ, how do you read? If I get a "loud and clear", I know we can communicate if necessary. Next use your radio to call entering the pattern, like "Madras traffic, glider JJ is entering a left down-wind for runway 16 at Madras. We lost 2 good men in Region 11 last year because the tow ship didn't have a radio. Klem Bowman was killed in the Standard Class Nationals when his stab fell and he didn't hear the call to release because he was on the wrong frequency. An instructor died and his student was severly injured when the battery went dead and they didn't hear the tow pilot call, "Close your spoilers", a few years back at Minden. The FAA hasn't seen fit to make radios mandatory, but we can put a stop to this needless loss of life.Refuse to fly without a radio.......... I believe proper use of the radio is nothing more than good airmanship. JJ Sinclair |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Another midair in the pattern
On Jan 14, 10:26*am, JJ Sinclair wrote:
When I see the NTSB report 2 aircraft accidents at the same date, time & place, it only means one thing. They came together in the air or on the ground. On 12/20/10 in Madras Origon, a Taylorcraft and Cessna came together while both were trying to land on runway16. The Taylorcraft didn't have a radio! Please don't fly without a radio and use it, Establish communication with your tow pilot by a simple com- check like; Red tow this is JJ, how do you read? If I get a "loud and clear", I know we can communicate if necessary. Next use your radio to call entering the pattern, like "Madras traffic, glider JJ is entering a left down-wind for runway 16 at Madras. We lost 2 good men in Region 11 last year because the tow ship didn't have a radio. Klem Bowman was killed in the Standard Class Nationals when his stab fell and he didn't hear the call to release because he was on the wrong frequency. An instructor died and his student was severly injured when the battery went dead and they didn't hear the tow pilot call, "Close your spoilers", a few years back at Minden. The FAA hasn't seen fit to make radios mandatory, but we can put a stop to this needless loss of life.Refuse to fly without a radio.......... I believe proper use of the radio is nothing more than good airmanship. JJ Sinclair There was a midair at SHD in Va. on 12/31 a helicopter and a C172, everyone with radios, mode C squawing 1200 etc, and all talking/ monitoring the Unicom 123.00.....it still happens, a good pair of 20/20 eyeballs and some common sense goes a long way. |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Another midair in the pattern
Yesterday, while on a 15 mile final in a B777, we
has a Cessna 182 pass 300 feet below us. We got a traffic alert from ATC and a warning on our TCAS (Traffic Collision Alert System). This is very similar to the FLARM. From about 1/2 mile, we finally had him visually as we flew over him. If the pilot was looking out his window, there is no way he could have missed seeing us. When we get an alert from our TCAS, it really helps us to locate the position of the threat, otherwise we we don't need to look at it. Everyone General Aviation/Glider pilot should have a PCAS or FLARM. A midair with a commercial aircraft will have devastating consequences for all of us. Randy |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Another midair in the pattern
On Jan 14, 3:02*pm, Randy wrote:
Yesterday, while on a 15 mile final in a B777, we has a Cessna 182 *pass 300 feet below us. We got a traffic alert from ATC and a warning on our TCAS (Traffic Collision Alert System). This is very similar to the FLARM. From about 1/2 mile, we finally had him visually as we flew over him. If the pilot was looking out his window, there is no way he could have missed seeing us. When we get an alert from our TCAS, it really helps us to locate the position of the threat, otherwise we we don't need to look at it. Everyone General Aviation/Glider pilot should have a PCAS or FLARM. A midair with a commercial aircraft will have devastating consequences for all of us. Randy Sorry to be pedantic but if you fly with TCAS (actually TCAS II on a 777) you really should know what it is - "Traffic Alert and Collision Avoidance System" not "Traffic Collision Alert System". Don't take my word for it - http://adsb.tc.faa.gov/TCAS.htm and numerous other references. Andy |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Another midair in the pattern
On 1/14/2011 5:02 PM, Randy wrote:
Yesterday, while on a 15 mile final in a B777, we has a Cessna 182 pass 300 feet below us. We got a traffic alert from ATC and a warning on our TCAS (Traffic Collision Alert System). This is very similar to the FLARM. From about 1/2 mile, we finally had him visually as we flew over him. If the pilot was looking out his window, there is no way he could have missed seeing us. When we get an alert from our TCAS, it really helps us to locate the position of the threat, otherwise we we don't need to look at it. Everyone General Aviation/Glider pilot should have a PCAS or FLARM. A midair with a commercial aircraft will have devastating consequences for all of us. Randy If you are flying a 777 outside of Class A or Class B airspace, you need to be looking out the window too. If you are flying IFR, ATC is only providing separation services with other IFR aircraft. It is the pilot's responsibility in both IFR and VFR aircraft to visually see and avoid each other. TCAS was never designed as the primary collision avoidance system. It is not foolproof and was designed as a last line of defense when everything else fails. That's how it should be getting used. -- Mike Schumann |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Even at uncontrolled fields, powered aircraft generally announce their position and intentions on unicom. Why do we in the glider world think things should be any different, especially when we can't do a go around on landing? We share our gliderport with a number of powered aircraft and while everyone seems to do a fine job, one never knows when someone isn't looking. Looking and listening and announcing your position and intentions only enhances the safety factor. I am looking for a headset with a PTT set up for my hand held, one cannot be too safe. After a few close calls in thermals with other gliders I have also added a parachute to my list of required items. Most of the privately owned glass ship pilots wear chutes, no reason why one in a rental should not. Walt |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Mandating Radios? (WAS: Another midair in the pattern)
Folks wrote...
When I see the NTSB report 2 aircraft accidents at the same date, time & place, it only means one thing. They came together in the air or on the ground. On 12/20/10 in Madras Origon, a Taylorcraft and Cessna came together while both were trying to land on runway16. The Taylorcraft didn't have a radio! Please don't fly without a radio and use itSnips... I agree. Snips......the addition of the radio makes things a bit safer. Returning to the pattern for landing and announcing one's intentions over the radio enhances the safety margin unless of course there are aircraft which cannot hear the announcement or make one themselves. Even at uncontrolled fields, powered aircraft generally announce their position and intentions on unicom. Why do we in the glider world think things should be any different, especially when we can't do a go around on landing?... Snips... I'm not about to argue against the proposition that having and (wisely) using a radio is not a (potentially, as distinct from automatically and inevitably) good thing, but I do think it (perhaps) worthwhile mentioning at this point in this particular discussion that some significant portion of the powerplane GA fleet (e.g. that subset of those certified and built and remaining without an electrical system) still do NOT have radios. Nor am I about to back any effort to mandate they (or anyone else legally enjoying certain [large] areas of U.S. airspace) be forced to do so. Life entails risk; flight perhaps more so than if we choose to remain ground-bound. Is there an honest pilot who doesn't admit we don't live in a risk-free world? Is there an honest pilot who sees a way to get TO a risk-free world? Or do some amongst us wish to mandate (in addition to immediately junking perfectly airworthy 2-33's and every L-13 in sight [WARNING: wry humor nearby]) we also junk every ATC-ed and airworthy powerplane lacking electrical systems? While I understand the sentiments and pain behind lost fellow pilots (and friends) - my own personal strictly-weekend-flyer total is nearing double figures - I hope none of my living friends seriously would support such a mandate. Seriously, Bob W. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Mandating Radios? (WAS: Another midair in the pattern)
On Jan 14, 7:21*pm, Bob Whelan wrote:
Folks wrote... When I see the NTSB report 2 aircraft accidents at the same date, time & *place, it only means one thing. They came together in the air or on the ground. On 12/20/10 in Madras Origon, a Taylorcraft and Cessna came together while both were trying to land on runway16. The Taylorcraft didn't have a radio! Please don't fly without a radio and use itSnips... I agree. *Snips......the addition of the radio makes things a bit safer. *Returning to the pattern for landing and announcing one's intentions over the radio enhances the safety margin unless of course there are aircraft which cannot hear the announcement or make one themselves. Even at uncontrolled fields, powered aircraft generally announce their position and intentions on unicom. *Why do we in the glider world think things should be any different, especially when we can't do a go around on landing?... Snips... I'm not about to argue against the proposition that having and (wisely) using a radio is not a (potentially, as distinct from automatically and inevitably) good thing, but I do think it (perhaps) worthwhile mentioning at this point in this particular discussion that some significant portion of the powerplane GA fleet (e.g. that subset of those certified and built and remaining without an electrical system) still do NOT have radios. Nor am I about to back any effort to mandate they (or anyone else legally enjoying certain [large] areas of U.S. airspace) be forced to do so. Life entails risk; flight perhaps more so than if we choose to remain ground-bound. Is there an honest pilot who doesn't admit we don't live in a risk-free world? Is there an honest pilot who sees a way to get TO a risk-free world? Or do some amongst us wish to mandate (in addition to immediately junking perfectly airworthy 2-33's and every L-13 in sight [WARNING: wry humor nearby]) we also junk every ATC-ed and airworthy powerplane lacking electrical systems? While I understand the sentiments and pain behind lost fellow pilots (and friends) - my own personal strictly-weekend-flyer total is nearing double figures - I hope none of my living friends seriously would support such a mandate. Seriously, Bob W. I have quite a bit of time in a Piper J3 and also in an Aeronca 11BC. Neither had an electrical system but both had radios. The fact that there is no electrical system is not a reason not to have a radio in a powered aircraft any more than it is in a glider. I'm not saying carrying and using a radio should be mandatory, just that not having an electrical system is no reason not to. A local glider FBO has no radios in its tow planes. Just one of the reasons I don't fly there any more. Andy |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Mandating Radios? (WAS: Another midair in the pattern)
On 1/14/2011 9:21 PM, Bob Whelan wrote:
Folks wrote... When I see the NTSB report 2 aircraft accidents at the same date, time & place, it only means one thing. They came together in the air or on the ground. On 12/20/10 in Madras Origon, a Taylorcraft and Cessna came together while both were trying to land on runway16. The Taylorcraft didn't have a radio! Please don't fly without a radio and use itSnips... I agree. Snips......the addition of the radio makes things a bit safer. Returning to the pattern for landing and announcing one's intentions over the radio enhances the safety margin unless of course there are aircraft which cannot hear the announcement or make one themselves. Even at uncontrolled fields, powered aircraft generally announce their position and intentions on unicom. Why do we in the glider world think things should be any different, especially when we can't do a go around on landing?... Snips... I'm not about to argue against the proposition that having and (wisely) using a radio is not a (potentially, as distinct from automatically and inevitably) good thing, but I do think it (perhaps) worthwhile mentioning at this point in this particular discussion that some significant portion of the powerplane GA fleet (e.g. that subset of those certified and built and remaining without an electrical system) still do NOT have radios. Nor am I about to back any effort to mandate they (or anyone else legally enjoying certain [large] areas of U.S. airspace) be forced to do so. Life entails risk; flight perhaps more so than if we choose to remain ground-bound. Is there an honest pilot who doesn't admit we don't live in a risk-free world? Is there an honest pilot who sees a way to get TO a risk-free world? Or do some amongst us wish to mandate (in addition to immediately junking perfectly airworthy 2-33's and every L-13 in sight [WARNING: wry humor nearby]) we also junk every ATC-ed and airworthy powerplane lacking electrical systems? While I understand the sentiments and pain behind lost fellow pilots (and friends) - my own personal strictly-weekend-flyer total is nearing double figures - I hope none of my living friends seriously would support such a mandate. Seriously, Bob W. What would be so onerous about a radio mandate, when handhelds are widely available for ~$200? -- Mike Schumann |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Another midair in the pattern
I am looking for a headset with a PTT set up for my hand held, one cannot be too safe. After a few close calls in thermals with other gliders I have also added a parachute to my list of required items. *Most of the privately owned glass ship pilots wear chutes, no reason why one in a rental should not. Walt, I did the exact same thing. Having a glider start circling with me in a thermal for the first time was both exciting and scary, and it is startling how little time you have to spot traffic when approaching head on. First thing I bought was a parachute, the 2nd thing I bought was a radio, and the THIRD thing I bought was a pair of polarized prescription sunglasses, for the exact same reasons you mention. I haven't gotten to wear the parachute much because I have always been with an instructor and it was an inconvenience, but now that I have my glider license I will be wearing it every flight and using my radio too even in the rentals. Tom (helipilot) |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Pattern for IFR | Mxsmanic | Instrument Flight Rules | 8 | September 9th 08 03:37 PM |
C-182 pattern help | SilkB | Piloting | 16 | September 15th 06 10:55 PM |
Right of Way in the pattern? | Kingfish | Piloting | 12 | August 11th 06 10:52 AM |
The Pattern is Full! | Jay Honeck | Piloting | 3 | January 10th 06 04:06 AM |
Crowded Pattern | Michael 182 | Piloting | 7 | October 8th 05 03:02 PM |