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DSX Safly (Safe Fly) Tracker
Hi,
i just had a very nice conversation with DSX the builder of the DSX Safly Tracker. In my view this system is the best tracker, safety device available for (glider) pilots. In Europe we have thes ELTs but who knows if the ELT survives the crash and can report the position to the Search and Rescue. With a complete and high frequently track it will be much easier. The spot is also very nice but tracking all 10 minutes generates a big area to search. I wanted to buy a spot these days because of safety but i like the DSX Safly much more and think of buying one. Also the price seems to be very attractive. I found a good presentation on their web. Sadly the website is not very clearly arranged. http://www.d-s-x.net/index.php?optio...d=1 9&lang=en I am not an owner or have any relationship to DSX, only wanted to inform you. KT |
#2
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DSX Safly (Safe Fly) Tracker
I found a good presentation on their web. Sadly the website is not very clearly arranged. http://www.d-s-x.net/index.php?optio...&view=category... I am not an owner or have any relationship to DSX, only wanted to inform you. KT What's going on with the DSX T-Advisor? It appeared as a competitor to Flarm with some potential advantages. The website is pretty slow and pretty scant. Is it in operation? Working with the latest flarm software updates? Available/will work with the US powerflarm? John Cochrane |
#3
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DSX Safly (Safe Fly) Tracker
Am 21.01.2011 17:36, John Cochrane wrote:
I found a good presentation on their web. Sadly the website is not very clearly arranged. http://www.d-s-x.net/index.php?optio...&view=category... I am not an owner or have any relationship to DSX, only wanted to inform you. KT What's going on with the DSX T-Advisor? It appeared as a competitor to Flarm with some potential advantages. The website is pretty slow and pretty scant. Is it in operation? Working with the latest flarm software updates? Available/will work with the US powerflarm? John Cochrane John, from a recent discussion on the segelflug.de forum it seems that the manufacturers of DSX T-Advisor did not license the FLARM components or firmware, as other competitors (e.g. LX) did. It seems that they rather did a reverse engineering of the FLARM protocol. If that is true, you will get no guarantee that the DSX T-Advisor will communicate correctly with FLARM or FLARM-compatible devices. -- Peter Scholz ASW24 JE |
#4
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DSX Safly (Safe Fly) Tracker
On Jan 24, 5:23*am, Peter Scholz wrote:
Am 21.01.2011 17:36, John Cochrane wrote: I found a good presentation on their web. Sadly the website is not very clearly arranged. http://www.d-s-x.net/index.php?optio...&view=category... I am not an owner or have any relationship to DSX, only wanted to inform you. KT What's going on with the DSX T-Advisor? It appeared as a competitor to Flarm with some potential advantages. The website is pretty slow and pretty scant. Is it in operation? Working with the latest flarm software updates? Available/will work with the US powerflarm? John Cochrane John, from a recent discussion on the segelflug.de forum it seems that the manufacturers of DSX T-Advisor did not license the FLARM components or firmware, as other competitors (e.g. LX) did. It seems that they rather did a reverse engineering of the FLARM protocol. If that is true, you will get no guarantee that the DSX T-Advisor will communicate correctly with FLARM or FLARM-compatible devices. -- Peter Scholz ASW24 JE And that just seems a monumentally stupid decision. The last thing we need are devices that receive and transmit kinda hopefully kinda like a Flarm but maybe not quite. It may not be just what they see as Flarm equipped threats but also how well their own position is received by other Flarm equipped aircraft. Flarm seems to have been pretty successful in developing an OEM market and supporting those OEMs so it pretty much boggles my mind as to why somebody would try to copy/clone the Flarm protocols vs. license the technology from Flarm. BTW there is PDF documentation on the T-Advisor product at http://www.soaringwear.com/uploadz/0...r_07_12_19.pdf (that may be out of date but the DSX web site (http://www.d-s-x.com) is usually so slow its unusable.) The GSM/GPRS based tracking datalink would be on no interest to me in the USA (think AT&T GSM phone coverage issues at altitude...). I believe the optional sat tracking datalink uses Globalstar so hopefully cheaper than Iridium based systems. If their web site was not so slow I'd look for the actual pricing. I have no idea if any of DSX's products are for sale in the USA, I kind of doubt it since they would need FCC approval and we've had heard of it. Darryl |
#5
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DSX Safly (Safe Fly) Tracker
Am 24.01.2011 22:12, Darryl Ramm wrote:
And that just seems a monumentally stupid decision. The last thing we need are devices that receive and transmit kinda hopefully kinda like a Flarm but maybe not quite. It may not be just what they see as Flarm equipped threats but also how well their own position is received by other Flarm equipped aircraft. Flarm seems to have been pretty successful in developing an OEM market and supporting those OEMs so it pretty much boggles my mind as to why somebody would try to copy/clone the Flarm protocols vs. license the technology from Flarm. ... Agreed. Anyway, the company seems be be not too successful, to put it friendly. At least I know of no one that hat installed one of their devices, at least not in Germany, Austria, Switzerland and France. May be they have a local market in Italy. -- Peter Scholz ASW24 JE |
#6
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DSX Safly (Safe Fly) Tracker
On Jan 25, 1:58*pm, "Tim Mara" wrote:
when has a monopoly ever been good??? for anything?? sounds too much to me like there must be some personal interest or involvement to ever wish this to be so tim We can have abstract debates about this until the cows come home. All our lives are surrounded by monopolies, etc. companies inventing technology and exploiting that. A lot depends on what any definition of monopoly is, I'm typing this reply on a "closed"/"monopoly like" device - iPhone running iOS, your cell phone may use CDMA, another "monopoly" technology. Wether thse technologies do well or not that is up to the vendor and competition. But the real question here is not abstract - what is the problem that Flarm has that requires an attack on them to improve things? Its one thing to have comptition, quite another for industry governing bodies to do things that could damage an established vendor who has developed a well working technology and OEM ecosystem like Flarm has - and that's especially why I bristled at any notion of IGC involvement. No I don't have a vested interest - except I want to see FLARM technology available and used in the USA to help prevent glider pilots dying in mid-air collisions. We've lost too many pilots, and had too many close calls to not do this. But since you raised the issue, it is hard to not notice that Wings and Wheels is not a PowerFLARM dealer - I hope that does not bias your opinion against FLARM technology or products. Is there a reason Wings and Wheels is not selling PowerFLARM products you want to let us into? Darryl |
#7
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DSX Safly (Safe Fly) Tracker
OK, since you asked..I and several others were approached on selling the
powerflarm and there was a big push to get everyone on board, The language was "take advantage of this big profit opportunity and "we'll" get this pushed through." we have the right people on our side and we'll get this out there so everyone will "have to have" this .....too many hands in the fire and into the pockets, to be very honest it just didn't feel good. The big push to get deposits and orders even before there is any sense of an approval for it's use and the dangling of small discounts "by now and save" is for lack of a better term, a lot like a late night infomercial selling wonder products"..I have nothing against the technology and making this available if someone wants it, but when the words like "mandatory" and "must have" start popping into every sentence I don't get all warm and gushy feelings... if it is the one thing that everyone "must have" then there are already enough sellers.they don't need to have me there too...and like everything else, once there is real competition for any product the technology will improve and better and lower cost options will appear....trying to monopolize any technology and/or use any form of political regulation has never been good for the companies or their followers. so I too have no vested interest in this or for that matter in anyone who might be a competitor to the device or it's future implementation Tim No I don't have a vested interest - except I want to see FLARM technology available and used in the USA to help prevent glider pilots dying in mid-air collisions. We've lost too many pilots, and had too many close calls to not do this. But since you raised the issue, it is hard to not notice that Wings and Wheels is not a PowerFLARM dealer - I hope that does not bias your opinion against FLARM technology or products. Is there a reason Wings and Wheels is not selling PowerFLARM products you want to let us into? Darryl __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5821 (20110126) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5821 (20110126) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com |
#8
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DSX Safly (Safe Fly) Tracker
On Jan 26, 10:05*am, "Tim Mara" wrote:
[snip] The big push to get deposits and orders even before there is any sense of an approval for it's use and the dangling of small discounts "by now and save" is for lack of a better term, a lot like a late night infomercial selling wonder products"..[snip] Tim Deposits? I don't believe USA PowerFLARM dealers are requiring deposits. I have a PowerFLARM brick on order and my dealer (Williams Soaring) made absolutely clear that they were not requiring/accepting deposits. I don't believe other dealers are requiring deposits and I would be dissapointed if they are. I think that FLARM, Butterfly and their USA distributors and dealers are handling this in a very sensible way. Offering a reasonable discount to early adopters to encourage adoption and encouraging pooling of purchases to encourage adoption in specific areas since percentage adoption in any area is important to the effectiveness of the technology. And the 300+ (I've lost track of the latest stated number of orders) orders so far in the USA seem to say that quite a few glider pilots agree. Given the product capabilities, R&D, certification and other costs involved in this these units already seem reasonably priced. Yes we'll all like a mythical $500 collision avoidance product that works well but there is just no way I ever see that happening. Darryl [apologies if this reposts twice Google Groups seems to have a hiccup this morning)] |
#9
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DSX Safly (Safe Fly) Tracker
"Darryl Ramm" wrote in message news:57983522-d272-4c83-aa46- Deposits? I don't believe USA PowerFLARM dealers are requiring deposits. I have a PowerFLARM brick on order and my dealer (Williams Soaring) made absolutely clear that they were not requiring/accepting deposits. I don't believe other dealers are requiring deposits and I would be dissapointed if they are. I understood some dealers do and some don't but that's up to the dealer...but if in fact no one is taking deposits then the 300 units already claimed sold is still then just vaporware and using the "already 300 units sold" to get others to jump onto the band wagon is pretty false advertising then too.....so if someone who has and then jumps off a cliff then the rest will also follow? tim I think that FLARM, Butterfly and their USA distributors and dealers are handling this in a very sensible way. Offering a reasonable discount to early adopters to encourage adoption and encouraging pooling of purchases to encourage adoption in specific areas since percentage adoption in any area is important to the effectiveness of the technology. And the 300+ (I've lost track of the latest stated number of orders) orders so far in the USA seem to say that quite a few glider pilots agree. Given the product capabilities, R&D, certification and other costs involved in this these units already seem reasonably priced. Yes we'll all like a mythical $500 collision avoidance product that works well but there is just no way I ever see that happening. Darryl [apologies if this reposts twice Google Groups seems to have a hiccup this morning)] __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5822 (20110126) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 5822 (20110126) __________ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com |
#10
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DSX Safly (Safe Fly) Tracker
On Jan 26, 2:04*pm, "Tim Mara" wrote:
"Darryl Ramm" wrote in message news:57983522-d272-4c83-aa46- Deposits? I don't believe USA PowerFLARM dealers are requiring deposits. I have a PowerFLARM brick on order and my dealer (Williams Soaring) made absolutely clear that they were not requiring/accepting deposits. I don't believe other dealers are requiring deposits and I would be dissapointed if they are. I understood some dealers do and some don't but that's up to the dealer...but if in fact no one is taking deposits then the 300 units already claimed sold is still then just vaporware and using the "already 300 units sold" to get others to jump onto the band wagon is pretty false advertising then too.....so if someone who has and then jumps off a cliff then the rest will also follow? tim I said "orders" not "sold" and I believe others have been careful with this as well. Yes all this is clearly just vaporware, its not like FLARM (or Butterfly) has any credibility in delivering soaring collision avoidance products. You want to sit this one out that's entirely your call, we can both check back in a year and see how its going in the USA. Darryl |
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