Crosswind landing control..

Newps wrote:


If you can roll out with the nose wheel in the air you're going way too
damn fast in the first place. A short field landing is bang bang. Mains
then nosewheel.

So true.

I was describing a more normal landing. My mistake.

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...

I'm a great believer of not using forward pressure during touchdown and
rollout on landings in trikes. Shouldn't be necessary and it's dangerous.
Hold back pressure on the rollout. That will increase the pressure on the
mains and desensitize the nose wheel. On most trikes its important that the
nose wheel be straight at touchdown. Correct for drift with aileron and
maintain directional control with opposite rudder. The magnitude of the
pressure required to do this properly will also vary during the approach.
Just keep the speed a bit higher than normal for the crosswind and fly the
airplane. If you do everything right, the nose wheel will take care of
itself and be positioned correctly at touchdown.

I think this is easier said than done. Opposite rudder on my
plane means the nosewheel is pointing "away" from the
crosswind at a slight angle from the "straight ahead" position,
and I've noticed I seem to lurch off the center line a bit in that
direction when the wheel hits. Taking out the rudder correction
early and one "weathervanes" into the xwind, of course, so you
land with the nosewheel straight but crabing slightly.

Any tips on getting the timing right?

Crosswind landings in GA trikes with coupled nose wheels does require a bit
of "finesse" at touchdown.
This is normal behavior however, and shouldn't be a real issue if the
touchdown is normal otherwise.
The "trick" is to have the airplane correctly set up for touchdown AT
touchdown. This means correctly set up for main wheel contact with the nose
wheel off the runway. As the windward main makes contact with the runway,
just allow the aileron to slack off a bit and center the rudder as the other
main settles in. If you are lined up directionally, this should be
accomplished in one smooth fluid motion and cause no particular problems at
touchdown.
It's interesting as you consider how crosswind landings are accomplished in
extremely high performance airplanes like the F16 or the T38, where you
actually hold in the crab right through touchdown. I've thought about this
more than once as I've planted this type of airplane on the runway in a
stiff crosswind. The mains are designed for it though, and the impetus of
the landing straightens out the aircraft with no problem. As in your light
GA airplane, you don't want to plant that nose gear with any positive
action.....aerodynamic braking considered, you just let the nose wheel come
on through and down to the runway normally with the rudder neutralized as
this is accomplished.
You are absolutely right that timing is essential. Actually, if you think
about it, timing is an essential element in ANY landing, so the secret
remains as always; plan the approach; set up the approach; and land the
airplane from your correctly set up approach and all should be well.
Dudley Henriques


"Tony Cox" wrote in message
ups.com...
"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...

I'm a great believer of not using forward pressure during touchdown and
rollout on landings in trikes. Shouldn't be necessary and it's dangerous.
Hold back pressure on the rollout. That will increase the pressure on the
mains and desensitize the nose wheel. On most trikes its important that
the
nose wheel be straight at touchdown. Correct for drift with aileron and
maintain directional control with opposite rudder. The magnitude of the
pressure required to do this properly will also vary during the approach.
Just keep the speed a bit higher than normal for the crosswind and fly
the
airplane. If you do everything right, the nose wheel will take care of
itself and be positioned correctly at touchdown.

I think this is easier said than done. Opposite rudder on my
plane means the nosewheel is pointing "away" from the
crosswind at a slight angle from the "straight ahead" position,
and I've noticed I seem to lurch off the center line a bit in that
direction when the wheel hits. Taking out the rudder correction
early and one "weathervanes" into the xwind, of course, so you
land with the nosewheel straight but crabing slightly.

Any tips on getting the timing right?

"Dan" wrote in message
ps.com...
My impression that the elevator applied varying levels of downward
force to balance the plane about the center of lift. I am not aware
that the elevator could even produce _upward_ force on the tail.


If the elevator couldn't generate an _upward_ force, then you couldn't pick
up the tail on an taildragger, right? Let me assure you, you can pick up the
tail on a taildragger.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

Dan wrote:
All,

When touching down in a crosswind, after the mains and the nosewheel
have all touched down firmly and are rolling, would it be proper
procedure to apply slight forward pressure to get better steering from
the nosewheel? Often, noseweel steering seems ineffective, and this
seems to have helped my control on rollout.

Any cautions? I have heard about "wheelbarrowing" but is that more of
a takeoff issue than landing issue? Under what circumstances would
"wheelbarrowing" occur?

--Dan


I was taught to basically use neutral elevator during the roll-out. You
really shouldn't need to add forward pressure to get solid steering.
Wheelbarrowing is a possibility if you apply aggresive nose down
elevator right after landing when you speed is high, but as you slow
down the ability to do this obviously decreases.

What are your symptoms of ineffective nosewheel steering? Are you not
able to hold the airplane on the centerline? Are you rolling in aileron
into the wind as you slow down such that you have full aileron into the
crosswind as you get to taxi speed?

Matt

BT wrote:

I would not apply forward pressure to the stick. I would apply heavier than
normal braking to get more weight on the wheels, and apply back pressure at
the same time so the decelleration does not throw more weight onto the nose
tire/strut. Heavier than normal braking tends to flat spot tires if the
weight is not fully on the mains.

Wheel barrowing is a common occurance on landing when a pilot forces the
airplane to land before it is ready.
Common evidence of wheel barrowing in Cessna's is damage to the lower fire
wall, sometimes to the point that day light is seen through the seperation.

I don't think wheelbarrowing will damage the firewheel. It takes a
landing on the nosewheel to do that. This isn't quite the same as
wheelbarrowing.


Matt

B A R R Y wrote:

Newps wrote:



If you can roll out with the nose wheel in the air you're going way too

damn fast in the first place. A short field landing is bang bang.
Mains then nosewheel.


So true.

I was describing a more normal landing. My mistake.

My normal landings are short field. :-)

Matt

Newps wrote:



Roger wrote:



We had an old V Tail Bo on the line around the Jurassic Period that
we used for charter once in a while.




Even then those big flaps slow them down in a hurry.


Bonanza flaps are OK. They're no Cessna flaps though.

Same with those on the Arrow. When I hit flaps 40 on my Skylane, it was
obvious that the flaps were down. I can almost forget they are down on
the Arrow.

Matt

Taildraggers, yes, absolutely. What about tricycle gear aircraft?

--Dan


Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe wrote:
"Dan" wrote in message
ps.com...
My impression that the elevator applied varying levels of downward
force to balance the plane about the center of lift. I am not aware
that the elevator could even produce _upward_ force on the tail.


If the elevator couldn't generate an _upward_ force, then you couldn't pick
up the tail on an taildragger, right? Let me assure you, you can pick up the
tail on a taildragger.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

"Dan" wrote in message
ups.com...
Taildraggers, yes, absolutely. What about tricycle gear aircraft?

--Dan


I'm not sure I understand the question.

Will the tail generate up? Sure, and elevator is an elevator.

Will the elevator pick the tail up? No because the nose wheel gets in the
way.

On the other hand, if you wack off that silly nose gear, move the mains
forward to where they belong, and add a tailwheel, your C150/2 is now a
Texas Taildragger (probably trademark) and you will be able to pick the tail
up with the elevator.

(all in good fun, eh?)

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.